shotgun primers in rifle cases

[indian joe]

Dunno where this should go so trying here
I have bucket loads of shotgun primers left me by my Dad (from trap shooting days) - rifle primers are escalating in price along with everything else and I am head scratching how to utilise these and save a buck without doing me bodily harm

I could tool up to bore out the primer pockets on a batch of cases to take the shotgun primers (time consuming but not so difficult) and this seems like it works ok with brass shotgun cases reformed for things like 450/577 and even the 45/75 - blackpowder only loads of course.

Anybody got a lead on this? - done it? - any ideas why its not a smart plan ? 15,000 primers just sitting there, cost me nothing.
cheers all.
Joe

[M-Tecs]

Trade them for what you need.

[Winger Ed.]

Either get into some serious shot gun shooting, or sell/trade 'em and get what you want.

[indian joe]

Either get into some serious shot gun shooting, or sell/trade 'em and get what you want.

nobody wants em, tried that already -- shotgun reloading dont compute at the moment - trap loads are almost same price as components.
Also inherited enough 12 gauge ammo to keep me going on farm pests for years.

Not counting the work involved - are there mechanical reasons why this will not work ? is dangerous at blackpowder pressure levels?
Would be using 45/70 or 45/75 cases so should be room and strength in the solid head for the conversion yes?

Not interested in the economic side of this rather looking at any possible safety issues.
Thanks fellas.

[Half Dog]

Post your location, there are people near me who would use shotgun primers. Could possibly trade too.

[toot]

any one know how to adapt them to rifle brass?? I would like to give it a go!

[dverna]

I have read of pistol cases being altered to use 209's. Never seen anyone try rifle cases but it should be possible.

If I had something like a .45/70 they should be safe for Trapdoor level (20k psi) level loads. 209's run at 14k on some shotgun loads but I expect that is more due to barrel strength than primer safety.

Best to trade them off if you can as others have suggested.

[HWooldridge]

I suspect you would have problems - shotgun primers are designed for very low pressures as compared to brass cartridges, even when loaded with black powder. It "might work" but as everyone else has stated, I would sell/trade them to someone who wants them. Conventional rifle and pistol primers are available if you look long and hard enough.

[yetavon]

I would be interested in trading some If some old CCI #157 will work for you.

[Jedman]

Myself and a friend did a lot of “ playing around “ with 410 hulls w / 209 primers loaded to much higher pressures in several rifles. If headspace is good a 209 primer is good for at least 25 K pressures. Being the way they are constructed the center part is a separate stamping then the outer “ body “ of the primer and when they reach their limit of pressure you will see a black circle of gas leakage around the two parts. When they do let go and come apart and the center falls out when the cartridge is extracted. These were all loaded with smokeless powders but I believe if used with black powder the 209 primers would work fine.
One thing to remember is due to the length of a 209 primer if you were to drill and ream the primer pockets out of centerfire brass the front end of the 209 would be totally unsupported as most centerfire brass only has about a .200 thick solid base. You would be eliminating the smaller flash hole built into the bras case and the full pressure might expand the front face of the primer that’s unsupported and it would then be a bit harder to remove them from a fired case when you would want to reload it again.
If you tried this I would do a couple of your 45-75 cases and start your first loads quite light and see how the primers react. When I said reaming the primer pocket it is a tapered hole so you may need to make your own tool to get a good fit .
Being you have so many of the primers I would do as others suggested and find a buyer and sell them and get what you need. There has to be people that shoot trap/ skeet that need 209 primers.

Jedman

[15meter]

There are still a number of shotgun reloaders in SW Michigan/NW Ohio. Three buddies just bought a case each of 209's for ~$300 a case. A bunch more skeet shooters I know would snatch up your primers in a heart beat.

Check at the local skeet clubs. Either guys loading sub-gauge or specialty reduced 12 gauge for skeet.

I've got a!most 60 boxes of 12's on the bench that I reloaded over the last couple of days.

Almost time to move on to the 20's, 28's and 410's.

I'm in the market for a nice 16 gauge, when that follows me home, the 16 gauge MEC 650 will come off the shelf.

Have you priced 16 gauge lately? Last I saw was $20+ each for the TWO boxes on the shelf. Same kind of price for 28 and .410.

I've got large rifle that would swap nicely for 209's, safer for you and your rifle. I suspect there are skeet guys local to you that would think the same way.

[Deadeye Bly]

I once modified some Berdan primed 577 Snider cases to use 209 shotgun primers. We shot a few to make sure it would work and I did the rest. The customer said it worked for him and there was not much of another option at that time.

[Gunlaker]

I think some muzzle loaders are set up to use 209 primers. I'd investigate the bullet weight and charges those guys are using. That should give an idea of how safe this might be.

Chris.

[Baltimoreed]

I can’t imagine that they couldn’t get horse traded for cf primers. You don’t say where you’re at. After the spring thaw look for a trap or skeet club to contact. Put some 3x5 cards on local gun range bulletin boards. If you have a local gun or pawn shop inquire there. Last year I traded 3 bricks of CCI spp for lpp. Two at my bank [mgr is a reloader] and one at a gunshow. Put a couple bricks in a daypack with a sign pinned on it and walk around a big gunshow. 209s are as scarce as cf primers.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

With an adapter they can be used as musket caps.

DG

[kootne]

There is a short "Dope Bag" article by Elmer Keith in an old American Rifleman magazine. He refers to Bob Ward of Missoula, Mt. doing this with cases for a 3-1/4 .450 Express that were Berdan primed and shooting them in a Churchill double rifle. His load was a 405 gr. bullet (I'm sure it was not a jacketed bullet, article is from the late '40's), and 50 gr. of 4198 powder.

[indian joe]

Post your location, there are people near me who would use shotgun primers. Could possibly trade too.

Go west young man - when you cross the coast hang a 45 degree left, go 10,000miles over the water till ya see land, do a couple circles around the joint with the coathanger lookin bridge and ya land right on the waters edge - hire a car and drive west again (7 hours will do it) pull up when the country starts to look a bit like north west Texas - thats close enough to find us.

[indian joe]

There are still a number of shotgun reloaders in SW Michigan/NW Ohio. Three buddies just bought a case each of 209's for ~$300 a case. A bunch more skeet shooters I know would snatch up your primers in a heart beat.

Check at the local skeet clubs. Either guys loading sub-gauge or specialty reduced 12 gauge for skeet.

I've got a!most 60 boxes of 12's on the bench that I reloaded over the last couple of days.

Almost time to move on to the 20's, 28's and 410's.

I'm in the market for a nice 16 gauge, when that follows me home, the 16 gauge MEC 650 will come off the shelf.

Have you priced 16 gauge lately? Last I saw was $20+ for the TWO boxes on the shelf. Same kind of price for 28 and .410.

I've got large rifle that would swap nicely for 209's, safer for you and your rifle. I suspect there are skeet guys local to you that would think the same way.

I'm downunder - it looks like money dynamics in the ammo game are different here - we get imports from eastern Europe and asia. I have a couple good contacts in the trap game and we cant find anybody interested. One or two guys reloading within a hundred miles of me and they would take them for free but dont want to pay. Still plenty ammo on the shelves here. Prices going up of course and that might get blokes back into reloading but we have a local manufacturer doing trap loads, I imagine will keep the lid on it.

[MUSTANG]

Most Shotgun Loads top out at about 12,000 to 13,000 PSI. I would think that one would want to keep Shot Gun Primer Primed rifles cases at less then 33,000 PSI Loads or less.

[indian joe]

With an adapter they can be used as musket caps.

DG

yep! working on an adapter for that but the cartridge deal would use a lot more if I can get it done