So what's this 45. Special?

[Dale53]

Actually,
In some circumstances, both.

1-use Cowboy Special cases for their original intention, a short case for light loads (both Black Powder and Smokeless in the revolvers chambered in .45 Colt.

2-Use in Single Action revolver cylinders chambered for .45 Colt AND .45 ACP. The Reason to use in the .45 ACP cylinder is if you want to use a bullet that requires a crimp groove. I prefer the CS case in my 45 ACP cylinder in my convertible Ruger Bisley when using the Lyman 452424 Keith 250 gr bullet.

3-Never use the CS case in a double action .45 ACP revolver (if you need a rimmed case in a double action .45 ACP, you will need an .45 Auto Rim case for proper headspace.

4-Special Circumstances:
Taurus built a .45 ACP revolver that did not have sufficient headspace to allow use of the Auto Rim cases. It utilized an extremely thin spring steel moonclip that fit nothing else. They actually were a nice, lightweight, 4” barreled Trail or Carry gun, but were quite specialized and were counter to everything you see above. HOwever, it just so happened that the .45 CS headspaced perfectly in my Taurus and allowed me to use it like the original 1917 revolvers used the .45 Auto Rim cases.

FWIW
Dale53

[Soundguy]

I just don't see how you can use a rimmed 45colt style case in a cylinder made to headspace 45acp on the mouth. Seems like there will be excessive headspace between the cylinder face and recoil shield unless it's made for a moon clip..in which case..thete is no need for 45acp case mouth headspace?

And as for reduced loads..why not keep full case capacity...it lowers the pressure.

[15meter]

I wonder how the .45 Spl. and .45 Schofield brass function through lever action and pump-action rifles.

Waaay late to the thread, I've never shot the cowboy special brass in anything but when I started shooting cowboy about 15 years ago my first rifle was a Winchester 94 AE Trapper in 45 Colt. Unfortunately the magazine only held 9 rounds. I had to load the tenth on the line or take a penalty for a missed target.

Figured out that 10 Schofield's would fit in the magazine, they fed just fine.

Eventually picked up a Uberti 73 rifle in 45 Colt, that solved the short magazine problem.

YMMV

[StrawHat]

…
3-Never use the CS case in a double action .45 ACP revolver (if you need a rimmed case in a double action .45 ACP, you will need an .45 Auto Rim case for proper headspace…

FWIW
Dale53…

Dale,

I rarely disagree with what you post but I don’t think you are seeing the picture. The length of the ACP, the AR and the CS are identical. If you can shoot ACP rounds in a double action revolver (Model 1917, Model 25-2, Model 22-4, etc) without using moonclips, why could the same length case be used regardless of rim, as long as it headspaces on the case mouth?

Kevin

[StrawHat]

I just don't see how you can use a rimmed 45colt style case in a cylinder made to headspace 45acp on the mouth. Seems like there will be excessive headspace between the cylinder face and recoil shield unless it's made for a moon clip..in which case..thete is no need for 45acp case mouth headspace?

And as for reduced loads..why not keep full case capacity...it lowers the pressure.

Again, headspace on the case mouth.

The 45 Cowboy Special was designed to provide enough smoke to qualify for a black powder round. A full case of black powder and a 200 grain bullet is a decent cartridge.

Kevin

[Soundguy]

How does it both headspace on a case mouth in a cyl made for acp AND have space for a RIM in that same cyl between the cyl and the recoil shield. If there is that much space...a regular acp round will float back and forth...alot!

[Baltimoreed]

Baltimoreed,

I just got around to re-reading this thread. I believe you may have confused a thing or two. Yes, the 45 Cowboy Special and the 45 ACP share basic dimensions. They also share those same dimensions with the 45 Auto Rim. Where they differ is in the rim. The ACP, is rimless. The Cowboy Special and the Auto Rim both have rims but they vary in thickness.

Your S&W Model 625 is set up for the 45 ACP cartridge and moon clips. The dimension from the muzzle end of the moon clip to the rear of the case head is duplicated by the dimension of the rim on the 45 AR.

The 45 Cowboy Special is for use in ACP cylinders that do not require moon clips for extraction.

Kevin

I reread this and got interested again so I got up and checked a c45s load in my 625 and as the case headspaces on the case mouth my c45s case also seats on the case mouth which puts it closer to my 625’s firing pin. Tomorrow I will check by trying to fire some and take some pix.

[Ziptar]

.45 Colt rim and .45 Auto length. It head spaces on the .45 ACP cylinder. Think of it as a .45 Auto Rim with a thinner rim.

The thinner rim is an advantage and actually solves a problem. The .45 Auto Rim can't be used. In .45 ACP Blackhawks and .45 Colt / .45 ACP Redhawk, S&W Governor and etc. The .45 Special can be used in them and eliminates the need for moon clips.

[Dale53]

Dale,

I rarely disagree with what you post but I don’t think you are seeing the picture. The length of the ACP, the AR and the CS are identical. If you can shoot ACP rounds in a double action revolver (Model 1917, Model 25-2, Model 22-4, etc) without using moonclips, why could the same length case be used regardless of rim, as long as it headspaces on the case mouth?

Kevin

Kevin;
We need a further clarification, here. You are correct that the .45 Cowboy Special brass headspaces on the case mouth and will work in the 1917 revolvers (and allow ejection) AS LONG AS YOU USE A TAPER CRIMP ON LOADED AMMUNITION. If, on the other hand, you wish to use heavier bullets with a crimp groove, and use a roll crimp, THEN the .45 Cowboy Special case should NOT be used in the 1917 double action revolvers (the roll crimp, while advisable with full charge heavier bullets, will interfere with proper headspace in the 1917 revolvers (in effect the roll crimp will allow the loaded round to seat further into the revolver cylinder than advisable. In effect, the rear of the case head would be further from the recoil shield than advisable.

I hope that clarifies the confusion.

FWIW
Dale53

[Piedmont]

I just don't see how you can use a rimmed 45colt style case in a cylinder made to headspace 45acp on the mouth. Seems like there will be excessive headspace between the cylinder face and recoil shield unless it's made for a moon clip..in which case..thete is no need for 45acp case mouth headspace?

And as for reduced loads..why not keep full case capacity...it lowers the pressure.

Let me try to answer these. The auto rim has a rim around .090" as I remember. A normal rimmed case is about .060". So if you use an ACP length .060" rimmed case you now get to roll crimp (so the headspacing mouth isn't a consideration) and the rim serves for headspacing. It works fine for a single action set up with the .060" gap. The S&W revolvers are set up for .090" between the breach face and the rear of the cylinder. A Blackhawk or other SA is set for .060" in the same area.
As for why use the short case? You are right about the pressure but if you aren't pushing loads the smaller cases burn smaller charges much more consistently shot-to-shot so tend to be accurate.
Moon clips won't work in single actions because even if you cut them to work (allow additional thickness), you would have to take out the cylinder from the gun every time you wanted to reload.

[StrawHat]

Kevin;
We need a further clarification, here. You are correct that the .45 Cowboy Special brass headspaces on the case mouth and will work in the 1917 revolvers (and allow ejection) AS LONG AS YOU USE A TAPER CRIMP ON LOADED AMMUNITION. If, on the other hand, you wish to use heavier bullets with a crimp groove, and use a roll crimp, THEN the .45 Cowboy Special case should NOT be used in the 1917 double action revolvers (the roll crimp, while advisable with full charge heavier bullets, will interfere with proper headspace in the 1917 revolvers (in effect the roll crimp will allow the loaded round to seat further into the revolver cylinder than advisable. In effect, the rear of the case head would be further from the recoil shield than advisable.

I hope that clarifies the confusion.

FWIW
Dale53

Dale,

I understand what you are saying. I have loaded 454424 and 452423 in ACP cases with a taper crimp. Never had any bullet creep with reasonable loads. I don’t hotrod my Model 1917s but my Model 22-4 has seen a few loads in the 45 Super range. Neck tension is a big asset in loading the ACP cartridge.

Kevin