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Thread: Marlin 1894s-41 debacle

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Marlin 1894s-41 debacle

    I’ve wanted one for a while. Met a gun guy a few weeks ago, bought a 3” S&W 657 from him, great gun. Mentioned to him that I was looking for an 1894 in 41 mag. Well last weekend he calls me. Dealer at a gun show has one marked NIB for $2k.

    Now normally I wouldn’t drop that kinda coin on something I haven’t touched, but I felt okay because it was NIB.

    The guy I know buys it for me and we meet later that night, show is about 2 hours from me. Open the box, gun is in a sock. Take it out of the sock and know I’ve got a problem. There are a handful of cosmetic issues, marks from mounting a scope, wear on the loading gate, a few dings in the stock the front sight had been removed and reinstalled, the finger lever screw was slightly buggered. It was dirty, my guess is fired maybe 100 rounds. My guy had never taken it out of the sock and looked at it because, NIB. At that point I decided that the right thing was not to put my guy in the middle, I’d overpaid for it based on condition, but I’d get over that eventually.

    Well I go to clean it the next day and see the real problem, the bore looks like someone went at it with a stainless steel brush on a hand drill. The grooves are full of copper. Not believing what I’m seeing I clean it out, and it is what it is. Took some pictures.

    The next day I called the gun show organizer, tracked down the dealer and called him. He said that he never said or put on the display that the gun was NIB, he just said that it was “in the box.” He said that all his money is tied up and he can’t take it back…but maybe later if things work out he would. We all know that’s ********, but isn’t much I can do on a cash transaction.

    I have a borescope coming tomorrow, going to see if the damage runs the length of the barrel. I’m guessing that it does, but if it’s just a few inches deep I think I might be able to have it bored out and be good.

    I’ve talked to a few custom barrel guys, haven’t found one doing lever guns except Turnbull. Sara Turnbull was helpful, and they’ll do the work, but at a cost where it makes more sense to just buy another gun. She did point me to a few other guys that do restoration and also suggested that I look into having it sleeved.

    I have emails out to JES, Dewey Vicnair, Tyler Gunworks, Oregunsmithing, Wild West Guns. Jim Finch at Long Hunters was a pleasant guy, very sympathetic, but they aren’t doing lever action work. Dan Wynne at McGowan’s was professional, they are not doing lever gun barrels either prefit or full custom.

    So, if I can find a barrel it shouldn’t be too bad getting it installed, and if not I hope that I can get it sleeved.

    There is my story of misfortune. It’s a combination of an unscrupulous dealer and a couple of trusting guys. We’ve all learned a lesson, hope that any of you that haven’t already learned this one can learn from my expense.

    If anyone has any ideas, please let me know. I’m willing to call any parts supplier, I know that there must have been spares made, and I doubt that many got used. Somewhere wrapped in VCI paper in a cardboard tube is a barrel I need.

    Thanks for listening,
    Jim

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Youch!!!!
    Have you fired it? It could be an awesome shooter!! I sure hope so.
    Gotta say, I don't think your friend did his due diligence for your requests.


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  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwtebay View Post
    Youch!!!!
    Have you fired it? It could be an awesome shooter!! I sure hope so.
    Gotta say, I don't think your friend did his due diligence for your requests.
    He could have done better, and I’m sure he would have if it was his cash, but no sense fretting over it since there’s no way I would ever try to stick him with it. I should have either made the long drive myself or been specific about what I wanted him to do.

    I don’t think it’s likely to shoot well at all. Here is the muzzle before and after cleaning.
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    But I may try it this coming weekend if only to test function. It’d be unfortunate to send it off to get the one issue fixed only to get it back and find another issue.

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Add John Taylor to your list. Member here.
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  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Man that is awful. I hope you are lucky and the gun shoots well enough to use it as is.

    I would at least try re-crowning the barrel and/or fire lapping it if it does not shoot well before investing a lot more money.

    Good luck.
    Don Verna


  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    I’m sorry to hear about your misfortune. Something similar happened to me two years ago buying a double barrel off of a very reputable member of another forum. I won’t go into details, but it wasn’t pleasant. Anyway, about fifteen years ago I bought a Savage ML2 brand new in the box that had rifling that looked like it had been cut into the barrel with a hammer and chisel. Worse than what you’re showing. Before sending it back I decided to shoot it. At a hundred yards it shot 1moa with some particular loads. I’m just suggesting you shoot the gun before doing anything with it. It might shoot well enough as is. Good luck and hard lesson learned. Been there, done that.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Several years ago I purchased one of the mummy wrapped No 4 Mark 2 Enfield, my BIL decided he wanted one also so started looking. He said he found one at a pawn shop in Kansas City and purchased it. He emailed me photos, which looked funny to me, but whatever - my knowledge base on preserved British firearms is not deep. Fast forward 20 years - his son decided to take it for evaluation at a large gun show by an expert that was supposed to be there. Well... turned out his was a beat up sporter that someone had wrapped up in what was thought to be brown grocery bags soaked in glue! Needless to say, not a good investment!!
    Truly the definition of a "pig in a poke"

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  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    I have seen a few barrels like that over the years. The reamer marks in the bore should not be there. We use to joke about the rifling in the Juker muzzle loaders that had reamer marks deeper than the rifling. I did learn something about rifling along the way, sometimes rough rifling shoots much better than expected. I stated my business after building a rifling machine for my hobby. After freshing out a muzzle loader for a friend and he told me he was getting a 1" group with round ball I thought there might be some money in it. I put an add in gun list and started getting barrel work. A new customer sent me a model 70 barrel to bore out and it was hard, rifling looked terrible. I didn't charge him for it and he sent me another barrel to try. The second barrel looked great and I felt proud at how it turned out. A few weeks went by and he said the barrel shot lousy so he tried the rough barrel and it shot great. Part of my learning process.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Rapier's Avatar
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    If you are going to shoot cast, try fire lapping the bore, if you get it cleaned up, try sizing to shoot cast. I bought a 30-30 TC barrel that had reamer marks across the lands and the grooves.
    By the time I got finished with it, it was a .312 but shot beautiful with cast bullets.
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  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    Corresponding with Mr. Taylor, he told me that there is no liner for 41 so he’s working on a barrel option for me.

    I’m going to shoot it in the next couple days just to satisfy my curiosity, but it’s going to foul badly. But I’m more than willing to be surprised!

    Have thought about lapping it, and since I have nothing to lose will give it a shot just for the experience, but I have 5 or 6 guns in this caliber and I’m moving towards standardization of sizing rather than away.

    Bore scope arrives today, will see if the damage runs the length of the barrel.

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I would fire lap it. Might get out some of the reamer marks. Try it then, it might shoot well. Try powder coated stuff thru it.

    There was one (41mag) at the Thornton, CO Cabelas last week for $1299. If it had been stainless, I might have bought it.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    I’m not a good shot, here is a quick comparison of the best of 10 5 shot groups from the 1894-41 shooting HSM Cowboy loads vs a group I shot from an Rossi 92 at the same time just to have a baseline. Both semi buckhorn sites, both at just 75’ because indoors. Just noticed that I wrote Rossi 94 on the target, it’s not.

    Tried to shoot some 41mag Hornady XTPs over 2400 (19 or 20gr) but on the 4th round the fired case stuck in the chamber and I didn’t bring a rod. The first 4 rounds were no more accurate.

    Couple pics of bore after 50 lead rounds, then 4 copper.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  13. #13
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    I have a Marlin camp Carbine made in
    1990 that truly was NIB. Barrel looks like
    your picture - shoots boolits fine.

    Shoot it before you do anything else.
    Lapping, j-words, powder coated are all
    good options.

    Please keep us posted!

  14. #14
    Boolit Master Tokarev's Avatar
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    Ask Mike Sayers at TJ Barrel Liners if they have 41.
    Remarks by President Biden on the Hostage Situation at Congregation Beth Israel in Colleyville, Texas, January 16, 2022:
    "But you can’t stop something like this if someone is on the street buying something from somebody else on the street."

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy eastbank's Avatar
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    here you could take him to small claims court for a small fee, if you win he will have a choice to take it back and refund your money or have his things auctioned off to make it right.

  16. #16
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    wow, that barrel rifling is crazy looking.
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  17. #17
    Boolit Master super6's Avatar
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    Looks like a treading die has been run through it, Is it all the way down the barrel?
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  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by FredBuddy View Post
    I have a Marlin camp Carbine made in
    1990 that truly was NIB. Barrel looks like
    your picture - shoots boolits fine.

    Shoot it before you do anything else.
    Lapping, j-words, powder coated are all
    good options.

    Please keep us posted!
    Shot it, so far not great. Going to keep at it both to see of some magic happens and also to see if there are other problems. It extracts starline brass beautifully, it fails to extract WW brass 8 times out of 10. No sense in investing in the barrel if it’s a total lemon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    Ask Mike Sayers at TJ Barrel Liners if they have 41.
    Thanks, will do, but so far no gunsmith has found one so I have low expectations.

    Quote Originally Posted by eastbank View Post
    here you could take him to small claims court for a small fee, if you win he will have a choice to take it back and refund your money or have his things auctioned off to make it right.
    Here too, but since it’d come down to what was said when I wasn’t there it’d be a loser. Best to just take the hit. As they say, it should hurt when you do stupid stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe View Post
    wow, that barrel rifling is crazy looking.
    I originally thought it was from a steel brush on a drill, but it’s very consistent and the full length of the barrel so now I think manufacturing defect. It does make a really disturbing sound when you run a brush through it. I hate that Marlin changed hands, before that had happened this would have been an easy warranty repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by super6 View Post
    Looks like a treading die has been run through it, Is it all the way down the barrel?
    Yes, had to wait for a borescope to check.

    Going to order a new extractor from RangerPoint, then more function testing.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master

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    Have never heard of a treading die, but I do know what a thread tap is.
    Spell check doesn't work in Chrome, so if something is spelled wrong, it's just a typo that I missed.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Have you tried reaching out to Marlin (et al)? I know nothing about their current customer service but they at least have the means to repair all of the issues you have encountered.
    Perhaps someone here has had an experience with Marlin's customer service lately?
    As far as the liner goes - I had a barrel relined in a 401 WSL quite some time ago. If memory serves,it was a "blank" liner and was rifled after installation. Perhaps John Taylor could speak to if that is an option?

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