308 with cast bullets your personal experience

[sloughfoot]

I started about 14 months ago casting for the 308 (and 30-30) my most accurate is the Lee 170 grain RF powder coated and gas checked with IMR 4227. I logged well over 1000 hours last year at the reloading bench and shooting the rifle both at target and game.
I did take several hogs before deer season came in but I also lost unrecovered hogs that I know I hit. I had enough mixed results this deer season that halfway through deer season I put the cast bullets down and picked up the jacketed bullets to finish season out. now that seasons over I plan to pick it all back up and continue testing the 308 and cast bullets I would like to hear your personal experience with the 308 hunting and accuracy. Also I’d like to hear What you have to offer about the 3030

I think my long history shooting jacketed bullets taking shoulder shots has left me with a habit that the cast bullet may not be as predictive with. So shot placement would be my first. Bhn for ranch dog 170 and Lee RF 170? Speed powder coated? Distance the 308 cast capable (what should I expect)?

[rickt300]

My cast bullet experience with 30 calibers has been with a 30-30. My shots were all close and starting velocities were around 2000 fps. Actually I had some good results though one of the deer ran a bit farther than I expected. I try shooting for bone generally shooting for the spine, high shoulder or neck when using cast bullets. Mine were cast of Wheel weights lubed conventionally. I used the 311041 design and the 311291 for my shooting.

[MT Gianni]

With 308 2 dead whitetail and an antelope. All shot with 311440, 150 gr bullet. Loper moved about 10 feet, one whitetail dropped right there another ran off and went down within 25 yards. Longest shot was under 100 yards. I shot for lungs. For most of my hunting I use jacketed. I might have shots from 50 to 350 yards on the edge of a property I cannot hunt and between sundown and dark.

[Winger Ed.]

I've killed several of the smaller size white tail deer with cast .30s at 1900-ish, and inside of 100 yards.
Down here, a white tail at 125 pounds, is a big deer. Most are around 80-90.
They have a decent size profile, but they are narrow, and long legged.
On them, cast were VERY effective.

I don't think I'd hunt any of the larger size hogs with one though.
Once they get up past 100 or so pounds it's like they're armor plated, and you have to hit them pretty hard.

[Larry Gibson]

I've killed numerous deer [black tail and mule deer] in the 150 - 250 lb (on the hoof) size with the 30-30, 308W and 30-06 along with a couple .31 cal rifles with cast bullets over the years. I settled on the Lyman 311-41 HP'd to 3/16" deep and cast of 97/1.5/1.5 alloy AC'd. I do not PC but sized, GC'd and lubed them [mostly Javelina lube and Hornady GCs] at .311. I loaded them for power with acceptable hunting accuracy [a magazine full into 6" at 200 yards] not just accuracy. I also used a clean barrel cleaning every 5 - 8 shots to maintain that level of accuracy at the velocities i was using. In the 10" twist '06s I usually ran them at 1950 - 2,000 fps. In the 30-30 and 308W which had 12" twist barrels the 311041s were pushed at 2200 - 2300 fps and maintained 1500+ fps at 200 yards.

I learned to always strive to put the bullet through the heart area regardless of the angle of shot. The heart sits low against the brisket between the front legs. Aiming for a specific point on the outside of an animal such as "behind the shoulder" or on the "point of the shoulder" can easily result in the bullet not hit anything "vital" resulting in a slower death and possible loss of the animal.

[megasupermagnum]

All of my 30 caliber cast bullet experience is in 327 federal (.312" groove diameter).

This is the kind of hole you can expect from a solid non-expanding flat nosed 139gr bullet at 1250 fps, admittedly weaker than anything you are likely to shoot from a rifle, but also shot quite close, I doubt you would see much more until you got to a velocity that would expand the bullet. Hole was about 3/8" diameter. Luckily I cast this bullet of a soft 20:1 alloy, and it did expand causing adequate damage to lungs, and the exit was pretty good sized. Taking out the main leg bone sure helped too. Distance was 25-30 yards.



This is the kind of hole you can expect from a 143gr hollow point at 1650 fps. This was the entrance, maybe 3/4" diameter, there wasn't much except chunks of lung left. I am not likely to try a solid bullet in 327, or any 30 caliber rifle again anytime soon. Hollow points rule. Distance was about 20 yards, so likely comparable to a slightly higher velocity round at a greater 100-150 yard shot. Edit: I did the quick math, and this bullet should have impacted about 1585 fps. For comparison a 308 shooting a 170gr HP launched at 2000 fps is likely to be at the same 1585 fps at around 175 yards.


I also shot a buck with the 143gr hollow point at about 1220 fps, and results were about between those two pictures. For the life of me, I can not find that picture or post now. My advice is that cast bullets can expand at really low velocities if you use a soft alloy with hollow point. If not, you need speed to do it. While solid flat nosed bullets most certainly work, they don't have much of a wow factor. Even a 44 magnum isn't that impressive. The only non-expanding bullets I've ever been very happy with have been shotgun slugs.

[Harter66]

You have 2 things going that should simplify getting both accuracy and energy exchange . PC and the GC . They should allow for a 2000-2200 fps load with WQWW at 50/50 with pure at least 25/75 and maybe AC even .

I know the 2 holes vs leave it all in the cavity argument runs hot . I'll skirt around that as best as I can .

200 yr ago we were still killing stuff all over the planet with 45-86 cal PRB hurtling along something like 18-2600 fps MV . Stuff just fell dead as long as you hit something reasonably important . I'm reminded that Lewis and Clark's first encounter with a Grizzly bear didn't go well but the lucky 54 cal ball in the eye socket stopped it pretty quick ...... maybe it was a 58 ....
I shot a TC Hawkins 50 cal for a while and the PRB at 200 yd would pass through both heads of a 55 gallon oil drum about the size of a nickle first and a half dollar on the second with about the same ME as a 180 gr 06' . BC and all reduced that considerably by 200 yd . A 45-90-140 gets to impact in a hurry from a 28" ML barrel . No clue what it's doing or how big it gets in a test medium .

I have a pretty poor self amended 200 gr Spitzer mould that I worked a lot to get hopefully up to 1900 fps MV , and I just couldn't get it there . 1800 is all it would give up . With a medium that should have been close to context I got them to .610 from .306 at the muzzle . When I had the chance on an 80 yd mule deer I took advantage of it and let it rip . I got a wound channel almost identical to the 150 #3033 Hornady BTSP . Less hamburger and less blood shot but about the same hole . No bullet to recover , just a 40' bound into boulders and sagebrush , more vertical than horizontal , otherwise drt . My last deer season in Nevada I lost a well hit deer with a proven load and the above Hornady bullet we walked 100 yd looking for any blood after the hit and a mile grid on a deer hit at 110 yd with a 150 gr 2700 fps MV load that typically left a baseball sized hole in the exit ribs and a half dollar to tennis ball hole in the hide . No deer found no birds to claim the corpse even 2 days later .......lots of remorse and general guilt . I still don't know what went wrong .

Cast them as soft as you can and meet the legal status , put them where they need to go , and hope for the best . If that doesn't work move to a bigger hole in the barrel , no shame in shooting a cast bullet in a 358 Win , 32 Win , and it seems almost like blasphemy not to in a lever gun over 35 cal . With a 45-70 at Trapdoor levels even a subsonic 500 gr 1-20 tin-lead bullet is going to expand a little bit hauling 1000ftlb past 250 yr ......

[popper]

Hogs are not deer. Did a test with big meplat soft alloy - gut and high shoulder shot. Gut went through and expanded, shoulder shot didn't penetrate. 185gr GC with 3031 IIRC from about 5 ft. Same hog, got a spine shot, one 9mm 115gr to the head. Saw he still followed me with his eyes so a 40sw 165gr hard cast to the skull ended it. Spine shots will stop them but ruin the backstrap. Break the pelvis and they can't go anywhere but that is a hard shot. Texas heart shot one on with 40sw cast. Took out something, broke front leg and lower jaw but still went ~100 yds before we found it. Basically cast will do the job but FMJ works best for the shoulder shot, to get through the gristle. Good hardcast FP will work but won't go through the gristle to the 'good' stuff. Pick a neck or lung shot to get them.

[waksupi]

Step up to a 220 gr. bullet if you need more penetration. You need to match the bullet to the game, and put it where it belongs.

[todd9.3x57]

i use a 30-40 krag with 165gr ranch dog and its coww with a little bit of tin (i think its 12+/- bhn) and the velocity is 1924fps . i and my son have killed 14-15 deer. i and my son go for behind the shoulder(double lung). my son has shot a doe at 173 yards(laser range finder thingy) but most of the deer go around 30-50 yards. we been "blessed" with dead right there(DRT), but one day the deer will run after the shot.

i have shot a 35/30-30, 9.3x57, 444, 44 mag/spl, 45-70 and others at deer. the deer will run after the shot about 30-50 yards.

[dverna]

If I hunted where all my shots were going to be less than 200 yards and I needed to shoot a lot of game, cast might be justified. My longest shot was nearly 300 yards (using a .308) and I would have passed on the shot with a cast bullet.

I found Larry Gibson's post interesting. If I wanted to use cast, I would follow his advice.

But the real question would be, "Why would I want to use a cast bullet?" It is less accurate and trickier wrt velocity, alloy and nose profile.

You said you logged over 1000 hours at the loading bench, on the range and hunting to get to where you are and are still looking for answers. You have invested in a lot of powder and primers (currently worth $50/lb and $100+/k). I bought 500 jacketed bullets for the .308 for $130 and had a load good to 400 yards in two range sessions...maybe 4-5 hours of loading and shooting.

Some people enjoy the journey. In fact spending hours to test loads, bullets, alloys etc is something they look forward to. I am results orientated and cheap. It did not take me long to give up on cast rifle loads for hunting. I cannot imagine many people wanting to "waste" precious components with the current supply and price situation.

IMO many people hunt with cast to justify their investment and hobby. Cast bullets work for people who do not need to take long shots at game. As you have experienced, there are no performance advantages in a cast .30 caliber bullet. IMO cast starts to make sense once you get over .35 cal at ranges under 200 yards.

Look at your needs and goals. Maybe cast is not the best way to meet them. Only you can judge.

[sloughfoot]

I’m reading everyone’s replies and thank you all for sharing. Lots of good insite here.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Aim for the heart. No critter on earth can make it very far with a hole in its heart. Keep shots under 100 yards until you feel confident with the load. Any further and you are getting into elevation and possibly windage adjustments. Even a 10mph cross wind can make a 3-4 inch POI difference on a low BC cast boolit moving 1800 -1900 fps. Shoot from a good rest to ensure a good hit. I don’t get DRTs with cast, and usually have to track a bit, be prepared for it.

[oldblinddog]

Anatomy lesson.
Don’t aim at the shoulder. Aim at the top of the heart. It takes out the arteries (drt) and gets both lungs. You want a hole through both sides (bigger blood trail). The more blood that comes out the shorter the trail. Works every time.

[megasupermagnum]

That is not where the heart is. The lungs are horrible too. That's a terrible picture all around.

[oldblinddog]

That is not where the heart is. The lungs are horrible too. That's a terrible picture all around.

I was wondering if anyone would say anything as that’s what I think too. None of the deer targets are correct. In any case, visualize where the heart is and shoot the arteries off the top. Point is still the same.

[megasupermagnum]

That's not bad advice. If you shoot for yellow circle of that diagram, you would be pretty close to where the heart really is. Really good choice for bow hunters. The lungs are sucked tight to the ribs and spine. If they aren't, that's called collapsed lung, and that deer has already been shot and is nearly dead. The heart is fully enclosed between the lungs. It is not resting against any ribs or sternum. It is also inside of a sack, although that makes no difference for hunting purposes. It's really hard to say 100% how to hit the heart simply due to the fact you can not be certain the exact angle the deer is standing. Based on my experience, in that picture, straight up with the legs, and about the level that yellow dot is at is the center of the heart.

[oldblinddog]

Not advocating for center heart shot. Shoot about an inch and a half higher to get the arteries. With a center heart shot you will see the deer kick the hind legs and then run a 100 yds (+/-). If you take out the major arteries the shock of sudden zero blood pressure gives you a dead right there. If you shoot just a little low you still have a heart shot. If a little high you have the double lung and he won’t go far. As always (imo) an exit wound is mandatory. The more ventilation the better.

If this guy ever shows up in the daylight, I have a 30 XCB with his name on it.

[Huntsman]

I got the idea to cast for my Win 88/308 from another Alberta Canada castboolit shooter off here.
I’m casting the Lee 200gr RNGC, WW, lubesized to .309 and a dose of IMR 3031 has accounted for 1 moose, 3 white tails. Before the 308 idea I was already casting for 30-30 and my muzzleloader said. I started off with the Lee 170gr but have since switched to NOE 165gr FNGC.

Happy Hunt’n and Shoot’n.

[versa-06]

The round nose bullet has yes taken a lot of game, But I think your results would be better if you stuck with the FN boolit & 50/50 + tin alloy. A shallow HP as suggested can assist in bleed out. I've seen a few pencil through shots due to lack of meplat & alloy too hard.