303 brit. loads.

[BadgerShooter]

Any experiences with the P-14 in 303?

[iron brigade]

I checked my notes on my p14..17 grains of 2400 shot real well. Most of my loads were with 6.7 grains of bullseye with a best group of 1 3/8".
All of my shooting is at 100 yards

I was blessed to buy that rifle several years ago at a gun show. Excellent bore and condition.

[screwcutter]

NOE 316299 solved my 303 problems, I size .316 for most.
My 2 P-14s and a No1 barrel get sized .314, as .316 didn’t want to chamber.

[Hootmix]

Finally got some rds. loaded up, headed to range this AM. 303#2 i think will be ok, (USING 311291) CAST @ 314+-, lubed, OAL @ 2.825 303#1 has a replaced barrel, (mic'd.@ .309+-), but don't think the chamber is as long as #2. The same load in #1 shows deep lands marks on the nose of bullets. Don't think i will try to shoot #1, until i cast some .310-311's, and downsize the necks w/ my 30-40 Krag die, ( being careful to not move the shoulder), My LEE dies are for .312, and as cast for #2, seated, I can't push the back into the case against the edge of table, good neck tension.

coffee's ready, Hootmix.

[Hootmix]

I'm baack, 1st. thanks to all for your help. Cast some 311291's (coww+ tin @ 12-13 BHN pan lubed & GC) .313-.314, loaded w/ 25gn.w/.4 of Dacron filler, using IMR-3031. Added a #1 flip sight to the MK4#1, set @ 250mtrs. + -, 5 shots, 3 touching, other 2 shots just out to right 1", all 6" above POA, but centered (should be good for 100yds), i will load 10rds of same and try again. All shot over chrono.@ 1747-1801, no leading, bore shiny, & seated to 2.820 OAL.

coffee's ready, Hootmix.





coffee's ready, Hootmix.

[gee-gaw]

First off, please forgive me for stepping in on Hootmix’s post. I’ve followed and have questions that could be answered here if you guys would indulge me…

I’m about to try this adventure with my new to me, Long Branch #4 MK1 I have some 155ish cast boolits from Linotype that I’ve Hy-tek coated and gas-checked. I slugged the bore and got a reading of .311, could this be right in view of all the info related here? My boolits are sized to .312 I had to hone out a sizer to get to that and am using .30 Gator gas checks. I purchased once fired cases from a fellow on here, annealed them, and ran them into the FL sizer till they would just allow the bolt to close. I flared the case mouth with a Lyman .30 M-die and plan on loading with a mid burn rate ball powder. I have intentions of using this in a type of competition for old war rifles but want to practice with cast boolits.

My questions are:
Are the .30 Gator checks appropriate?
Have I mis-read the mic when slugging the bore? I know reading a 5 groove slug can be a challenge, though I feel pretty confident that the bore is .311 as read.

This rifle does not show an FTR stamp on the stock or metal. It is date stamped 1944 and has a clean, shiny bore but may need the crown touched up. The wood is in very good condition, though I intend to bed it.
As an aside, I’m in the market for a set of the flip-up sights, if anyone has a set for sale.

Thanks for putting up with me,
Wayne

[Hootmix]

gee-haw, welcome, I like you am also new to loading GC, military ammo, if you can't find the answer you are looking for on this forum,,,,,, it, hasn't been written " YET". Great bunch of folks here. I just ordered a flip-up from Numrich, check with them.
To answer your questions, some of the others will be along (I'm still to green), " they've been their done that".

coffee's ready, Hootmix.

[GunnyJohn]

If you are loading for a Lee Enfield using a 311291 is not likely to give very good accuracy unless it casts oversize so can be sized to 0.314+.

Most Lee Enfields have groove diameters considerably larger than the nominal 0.311"/0.312".

I have 5 Lee Enfields and all have groove diameters of 0.314" +/- a thou. A Lyman 314299 that cast at 0.313" wasn't big enough and accuracy was poor.

I bought the NOE 316299 that casts at 0.316". I gas check and size 0.315". That shoots well for me using moderate loads. When I pushed loads for higher velocity I got skidding and gas cutting using ACWW so went to oven heat treating and the harder boolits worked.

Longbow

How are you sizing to .315? I have been looking online for a .315 sizing die and all I can come up with is .314.

[john.k]

Used to be someone on this forum who would hone out any sizing die on a industrial Sunnen hone.

[LAGS]

I bought a Lee push thru sizing die.
It was .312.
I honed it out to .315 using wet and dry sandpaper wrapped on a wooden dowel using light machine oil.
I needed a .315 for my Chinese M 53 Mosin.
The sizer worked very well.

[Whole Bunches]

How are you sizing to .315? I have been looking online for a .315 sizing die and all I can come up with is .314.

I got my .315 from Buffalo Arms…they make custom sizing/lube dies.

[nicholst55]

IIRC, we have a Vendor-Sponsor that makes custom diameter sizing dies for Lyman/RCBS and Star machines.

[BadgerShooter]

One weird thing I have done that "works" in a couple of oversize brits is to leave the bullets as cast - they are about .3135-.314. Just clip on the gas check by hand and hand lube the bullet. I don't seat the gc below the neck (don't know if it would work or not). They have shot excellently. Sized and seated gas check bullets at .314 shoot like a shotgun - hand lubed and hand applied gc and they shoot sub inch at 50 yards. Quirky, but I've repeated it with the same results with bullets from 200 grains to 125 grains.

[screwcutter]

lathesmith made a .316” size die for me, along with other custom sizes.

[Alferd Packer]

Weaned off gas checks.
Paper patch.
Once learned, the only way to go.
I am a cheap so and so.
I always keep bullet base in the neck whether gas check or paper patch.
Why chance it?

[TerkyJerky]

New to loading GC ammo. I will be loading w/a # 311291 w/GC, for a friends 303 Brit., have looked & read several articles on said subject, but the brass OAL & loaded OAL changed w/ each article. Using a LEE 2 die set, (had to make an expander die for .312), any help on the loaded OAL would be appreciated. These will be lubed (thinking about PC'ing the next batch). Don't think i should load the GCs below the neck (yes or no)?


coffee's ready, Hootmix.

the way i figure out COAL is to partially seat the bullet and then chamber the round. if the bullet is long enough, it will contact the lands of the rifling and be pushed back into the case. then, i seat the bullet a few thousandths deeper for some wiggle room. beware if you are using a very soft alloy or you have very tight neck tension, the bullet may engrave in the rifling and be pulled out of the case upon extraction. also, and this should go without saying, load short enough to fit in the magazine lol

[longbow]

GunnyJohn... I just saw this so sorry for late answer. I made my own 0.315" sizing die. As said above most people hone/lap out an available size to get the size they want.

Beagling a mould should work fine too if you can get as cast to the size you want. They'd be slightly oval but balanced so should size going through the throat and into the bore. That is an easy thing to try. It may work, it may not but no cost and little effort to find out.

Longbow

[MOC031]

Have I mis-read the mic when slugging the bore? I know reading a 5 groove slug can be a challenge, though I feel pretty confident that the bore is .311 as read.

A selection of .0005" pin gauges will tell you your bore diameter end to end. For what it's worth, I've had my best luck paying more attention to getting the tightest fit in the led/ball seat along with the OAL of the front of the bullet working with the bore diameter. The rear of the bullet that's in the led/ball seat will magically conform to the groove diameter when the primer goes off.

This rifle does not show an FTR stamp on the stock or metal. It is date stamped 1944 and has a clean, shiny bore but may need the crown touched up. The wood is in very good condition, though I intend to bed it.

If this is a pristine looking No. 4 Mk1* (whose manufacture?), you want to make sure you REALLY want to do modern bedding of the stock. I was up in Alberta at a gun show late last year, and in the country where Lee Enfields are ubiquitous, an un-bubba'd No. 4 Mk1* was generally for sale at around $900. Once bubba'd, about half of that. Not having been through FTR makes it even better.

The Commonwealth nations had a fairly well established procedure for setting these rifles up for Service Rifle Competition well out to the 1000 yard mark, and it didn't involve applications of Acraglass or anything similar. I have .pdf copies of all of that if you wish to PM/Email me; happy to share them with you. Pams for sight settings on the No. 4 sights, sight adjustments, etc are also available online for download i.e. at milsurps.com: mostly Canadian and British pams.

As an aside, I’m in the market for a set of the flip-up sights, if anyone has a set for sale.

Well, if you're REALLY serious about competitively shooting with that rifle... what's it worth to ya?

Is the competition always at one specific distance i.e. 100 or 200 yards, or does it vary?

The least expensive route for a back sight will be the Mk 1, 3, or 4. The Mk 1 was a thumbscrew adjustment that allows you to adjust just above or below the range lines.

The later Mk 3 and 4, the adjustment clicks into a notch at the specific yardage. If you're a bit low or a bit high at that sight setting, well... sucks to be you, deal with it.



If you're shooting at one specific range, any of them, even the two position Mk 2 will be fine. Just choose a slightly higher front sight than you should have and then dress it down with a file so you have the proper POA/POI for your chosen competition load at that range. There's a guy on EvilBay that makes a very cool cramps for making horizontal adjustments, including the proper screwdriver for backing off the capture screw that holds the front sight in place. I think they're about $30... a steal of a deal when original cramps for these rifles are going for $200 and higher to the collector crowd more interested in collecting all the associated kit than they are with actually shooting the rifles.

If you can't find those rear sights elsewhere, you should be able to find somebody at milsurps.com willing to sell you an adjustable back sight. Be aware that many I have checked with a set of verniers have a meaningful amount of backlash/slop, meaning they are not quit as repeatable as you might assume they are. Good enough for Axis powers in WWII and Chicoms in the Korean War, but not the very best for Service Rifle type competition at range.

And FINALLY, if you want the very best for a drop in adjustable rear sight that uses the same crosspin attachment as the military sight, go find a Parker Hale No. 5 sight with micrometer adjustments for both range and windage. I bought mine back around 1985 for about $50 as I recall, and have been using it ever since. I believe A.J. Parker made a similar sight, but it wasn't quite as easy a drop in swap as the Parker Hale. The last one I saw for sale online, they were asking for almost $600.