Shotshell hulls and pressure signs?

[faustus]

I am wondering ..... has anybody done any testing with respect to the range in which the different shotshell hulls show pressure signs?

Like these for example:

• 12ga Cheddite
• 12ga Fiocchi
• 12ga Federal

I know Ajay did some testing with the Fiocchi and Federal hulls. According to him the Fiocchi hulls would show pressure signs just around max pressure or just above max pressure. Whereas the Federal hulls would not show pressure signs till way beyond max pressure ....

I am still wondering around where .... at how many PSI the Federal hulls will actually show pressure signs?

Same for the Cheddite hulls ....

[megasupermagnum]

It's far too variable. A Remington 11-48 will show markings on the shell from 8,000 psi book loads. My Benelli Nova with 28" barrel won't show pressure signs with loads Tom Armbrust pressure tested at 14,500 psi. The same gun with 24" slug barrel will "glock" shells below 11,500 psi book loads. All those with Federal hulls. I don't recall ever seeing a any kind of mark from a shell fired from a Mossberg, regardless of hull or load.

There's no doubt at all Federal hunting hull's heads are much tougher than Fiocchi. The only gun I own that will reliably show any kind of sign is my Ultra Slug Hunter. Fiocchi's will dent where the ejector is below max loads. They get more obvious as you get up to that 11,000-12,000 psi range. A Federal Top Gun hull isn't much different, but a Federal .090" basewad hull I don't think I've ever seen those leave any kind of ejector mark.

It comes down to that to see pressure signs, you would need a gun that has some of the head unsupported. An 11-48 has a bolt head that leaves some of the rim on one side unsupported, and will almost always leave it's mark. An H&R has an ejector that allows a small area to expand. A Mossberg does not have that, the shell is fully supported. You will never get any kind of primer indications in a shotgun. They will not flatten in the rifle sense. They will not crater due to over pressure. Any leaking is going to be from a loose fit in the hull, or maybe a sharp firing pin. What this means is that there is no sign you can count on for being over pressure.

[faustus]

Thanks Megasupermagnum for the reply and infos.

I normally test all my loads with a Remington 870 Police .... and the 870 like the 11-48 has that bolt head that leaves a tiny portion of the rim unsupported ... and it has the extractor cut out in the chamber. These are the two spots where the Fiocchi shells have given me pressure signs in the past.

Megasupermagnum, when you say "Federal .090" basewad hull" ... these are the Federal straight wall one piece hulls ... right? That is what I have here ...

So, who has had pressure signs with the Cheddite hulls or the Federal .090" basewad hull?
And if yes, ... do you know at what pressure around?

[dverna]

You are going down a path that may not be wise to travel. Most shotguns have very little safety factor and operating pressures are low relative to what we are used to.

I have very little confidence in the stuff Ajay posted. Unless he used pressure measuring equipment (and the stuff I read did not indicate he did), he was guessing.

MSM is giving good advice. Do not do it. There is so little to be gained from pushing the envelope. If you want to load at maximum without a published recipe, have your shells tested by:

https://www.precisionreloading.com/v...?pg=shot_proof

[Petander]

These two links might have a place here:

https://www.shotgunlife.com/shotguns...pressures.html

https://www.shotgunworld.com/threads...pressure.4425/

[longbow]

I agree 100% with advice given above!

Having blown up one shotgun using a book load with some seemingly "minor" changes I am leery of doing significant substitutions or trying to "work up" loads without pressure testing equipment.

I have posted details about my blow up several times to try to save others from the unpleasant experience.

Not what you asked for but probably useful and mostly with pressures listed are cpileri's threads on slug testing... mostly heavy slugs but good reference and a trustworthy source. Here's a link to one thread:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...Inspired-loads

If you find it useful you can search to find much more.

Blood Trail's posts also contain pressure tested info, at least for recent testing. He posts here and in Slug and Buck Shooter's page on Facebook. A search will find his threads. If you haven't seen them there is good info there too.

Longbow

[megasupermagnum]

You are going down a path that may not be wise to travel. Most shotguns have very little safety factor and operating pressures are low relative to what we are used to.

I have very little confidence in the stuff Ajay posted. Unless he used pressure measuring equipment (and the stuff I read did not indicate he did), he was guessing.

MSM is giving good advice. Do not do it. There is so little to be gained from pushing the envelope. If you want to load at maximum without a published recipe, have your shells tested by:

https://www.precisionreloading.com/v...?pg=shot_proof

I was fine with Ajay, but he was an odd fellow. I first encountered him 10, maybe even 15 years ago. He was over on the Shotgunworld forum, and he had all the same stuff way back then. He used to be big into slug shooting, and his name is because he was trying to market a sabot he supposedly was designing for reloading that never actually made it to market called the super blazing sabot. I really don't know what happened to that project, it just kind of faded. He would post teaser pictures of one, then never hear about it again. Eventually everything new stopped. He kept posting picture after picture for more than a decade of the same old stuff that he did who knows when. I doubt he could possibly remember what he did by now, and if he has been shooting at all for the past 10 years, he was not experimenting. It would be nice to know a little bit more about him. Maybe he was an old guy who physically could not do it anymore, who knows. Unfortunately I think a few members called him on his BS, and he did not have a good answer. I don't know why else he would have gone off the deep end like he did. I'm sure the stuff he posted years ago was correct, and that he actually did what he said. Like everything on the internet, it needs to be taken with a grain of salt. What always got me is that I've tried just about all of this advice on accuracy, and I don't think any of it is worth squat. His advice that a slug should only be a 10lb push through fit, or certain wads to use, or spacers, etc. none of it worked for me, but it wasn't unsafe. There is a reason all his posts are deleted now. He snapped, and there is no way to tell what was safe or accurate as it had been modified for some reason.

He has been talking about the Fiocchi pressure signs for a good long time though, that part is true. What is not true is that it works reliably. I don't think he had nearly as many slug guns as some may have thought.

P.S. Yes the Federal .090" basewad hull is also called the one-piece hull, and also sometimes called the Federal hunting plastic base hull.