High BC .458 caliber casting molds.

[Don McDowell]

With paper patching it’s pretty important to keep the wrapped diameter enough under groove diameter to allow for the thickness of the paper and keep the paper from imprinting its grain into the bullet . That’s why bore diameter is usually the main focus


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[M-Tecs]

With paper patching it’s pretty important to keep the wrapped diameter enough under groove diameter to allow for the thickness of the paper and keep the paper from imprinting its grain into the bullet . That’s why bore diameter is usually the main focus


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I was not aware of that obviously. I have not played with paper patch yet so I have a lot to learn. I do have two Krieger .450" x .458" 16 twist with 50/50 land and groove that I will be putting on an original Hi-Wall.

I was going to do a 45-100 when I ordered it but it sounds like I will be purchasing a buddies C Sharps in 45-100 so I think I will just go with a 45/70.

Any advice on reamer design for paper patch? Any advice in general?

[Don McDowell]

Withheld paper patch bullets the only place for alloy to be displaced from its trip down the barrel is on the base. Usually what happens is the base will get cupped and the lands will cause fins to extend over the base. That’s why fitting the billet and the paper gets to be something of a critical part of accuracy. You need the paper and bullet to get a good hold on the rifling but keep deforming the base to a minimum
Where grease groove bullets most of that deformation by the rifling will be displaced in the lube grooves


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[Nobade]

I was not aware of that obviously. I have not played with paper patch yet so I have a lot to learn. I do have two Krieger .450" x .458" 16 twist with 50/50 land and groove that I will be putting on an original Hi-Wall.

I was going to do a 45-100 when I ordered it but it sounds like I will be purchasing a buddies C Sharps in 45-100 so I think I will just go with a 45/70.

Any advice on reamer design for paper patch? Any advice in general?

I have a dedicated paper patch reamer that I bought from Dan Theodore for the 45-70. It has a much smaller neck diameter than a regular chamber, and will not accept a bullet bigger than .450". Then it goes into a gentle leade with zero freebore. It is beautiful when used as intended but you're not going to fire normal ammo in it. The regular SAAMI 45-70 chamber is actually pretty good for PP since there's a very slight bevel at the start of the rifling and no freebore. You do have to resize the brass to hold the bullet, but you can usually back off the size die enough to just reduce it enough and not need to go all the way. With my PP chamber the brass never gets sized since it's smaller than a regular size die anyway.

[WalterNCUS]

The bullet has two diameters. The front part is bore size while the back is sized for the grooves. People use the term bore size all the time. They are actually referring to the groove size. These are commonly referred to as bore riding bullets.

Thanks.

[M-Tecs]

I have a dedicated paper patch reamer that I bought from Dan Theodore for the 45-70. It has a much smaller neck diameter than a regular chamber, and will not accept a bullet bigger than .450". Then it goes into a gentle leade with zero freebore. It is beautiful when used as intended but you're not going to fire normal ammo in it. The regular SAAMI 45-70 chamber is actually pretty good for PP since there's a very slight bevel at the start of the rifling and no freebore. You do have to resize the brass to hold the bullet, but you can usually back off the size die enough to just reduce it enough and not need to go all the way. With my PP chamber the brass never gets sized since it's smaller than a regular size die anyway.

Thanks. I e-mailed Dan Theodore about an hour before the fire. What a tragic loss.

Some of his designs can be found here http://bcsingleshot.com/DansStuff/DanTheodore.html

http://www.bpcr.net/site_docs-result...e-Jan-2007.htm

[WalterNCUS]

Has anyone used the Bertram Cases in 2.8 inches, aka there .45-110 Sharps?

[Nobade]

Thanks. I e-mailed Dan Theodore about an hour before the fire. What a tragic loss.

Some of his designs can be found here http://bcsingleshot.com/DansStuff/DanTheodore.html

http://www.bpcr.net/site_docs-result...e-Jan-2007.htm

I agree, a terrible loss.
Dave Manson made those reamers so he should still have the drawings for them. Dan T. had a 45-90 just like it, I wish I'd had the funds to buy both but could only get one.

[Nobade]

Has anyone used the Bertram Cases in 2.8 inches, aka there .45-110 Sharps?

Never seen a Bertram case worth a darn.

[WalterNCUS]

Never seen a Bertram case worth a darn.

How bad are they?

[WalterNCUS]

Anyone have a line on Norma .45 3 1/4 inch brass ?

[almar]

Spitzers don't fly as well. Don is right, the money nose flies very well at long distance as long as you cast it hard enough so the nose doesn't slump during launch. If you really want it to have a high BC, get a paper patched slick side one.

I agree. I ordered a mould from brooks moulds. A 540gr paper patch nose pour with a cupped base. My 45-90 has a .450 bore measured with a gauge pin. The patched bullet rides the bore and its seated only about 3/16 in in the case.The naked bullet is .442 and weighs 543 gr with 20:1, its slick. I cant think of any other bullet for this caliber that would have a higher bc. But paper patching is a different beast. Still learning...

[Nobade]

How bad are they?

About half of the ones I have tried broke in half on the first firing. And many of them wouldn't hold a primer. That's starting with new brass. I wouldn't touch them any more for any price, and they are not cheap.

[WalterNCUS]

About half of the ones I have tried broke in half on the first firing. And many of them wouldn't hold a primer. That's starting with new brass. I wouldn't touch them any more for any price, and they are not cheap.

That's what I feared. And at $430.00 for 100 cartridges I don't want to waste my cash on them. I will keep looking for other options.

[Gunlaker]

I would just wait for Norma 2.88" to become available. I know that some liked the Jameson brass. I had some from a number of years ago and it was short and had an undersized diameter at the web. From what I was told that wasn't a problem with their later brass. You might also be able to scrounge up some old Bell or RCBS cases. I haven't used either of those but I've never heard anything bad. But Norma is what I'd recommend.

Chris.

[semtav]

Walter
In case you hadn't come across it, you might read this:

http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/vi...ginner#p327158

Keep in mind , there is such a thing as information overload.

Not that anyone is wrong in their given advice per se, but there are many roads to the same destination. find an easy one to start.

don't worry about not getting on Shiloh yet, read the posts and then come back here to ask questions. Many of the same come here occasionally.

[Gunlaker]

I agree, a terrible loss.
Dave Manson made those reamers so he should still have the drawings for them. Dan T. had a 45-90 just like it, I wish I'd had the funds to buy both but could only get one.

You can definitely order all of dans reamers from Manson. I have a few of them.

Chris.

[martinibelgian]

As to Bertram brass, I have 100 Bertram cases in no.2 Musket, already 10+ years old and countless firings. No issue except for shooter error, or should I say reloader. They all hold up extremely well, so I most certainly wouldn't generalize. I know that at a certain point in time they had quality issues, but I have no complaints other than the price. But then again, no. 2 musket brass, they are the only game in town.

[Gunlaker]

I'm glad they worked for you but I wouldn't risk the $$$ on their cases. They were the first cases I bought for a C. Sharps 1874 in .45-110 maybe 10+ years ago. Several of them split in half lengthwise on the first firing.

Chris.

[Lead pot]

I'm glad they worked for you but I wouldn't risk the $$$ on their cases. They were the first cases I bought for a C. Sharps 1874 in .45-110 maybe 10+ years ago. Several of them split in half lengthwise on the first firing.

Chris.

I had the same problem with .40-70 cases from them.