Hi,
The manual of cartridge conversions talks about expanding the neck of a 30-06 before putting it through the Whelen die. I’ve also read that some just put it in the whelen die.
On the former - I’d be grateful for leads on a tapered expander for just such a purpose. LE Wilson doesn’t make one that big. Do I need a custom tapered expander or is something out there I haven’t found?
Thank you
RCBS makes one for 0.358".
I believe that they are available on their website.
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Oh heck CWTEbay - I just need a normal neck expander for a 35 cal?Originally Posted by cwtebay
Thank you!
Well ... I haven't ever made 35 Whelen from 30-06 with mine. I got it to make 35/30 out of 30 WCF brass (because I got cheap and didn't want to waste components on COW method). It works for that after one firing to make the shoulder bump forward.
Granted, I only have neck forming dies for that cartridge because...well I'm too cheap to spring for the custom dies and the 35 Remington neck sizer set works just fine.
I just run mine through a RCBS FL die. But do use a really good lube. I only trust imperial sizing wax. It's never had a stuck case forming brass like other lubes I've tried. Before I form brass i clean my die real well and polish the inside a bit with flitz or something similar. Seems to help. I do size as quick as I can. I've found if I go slow the brass in the neck seems to be more inconsistent in thickness with a thin spot. When I'm making brass for sorting in 1 grain increments, I'll annel as well. Seems to help with consistency.
About half of my whelen brass is formed LC brass from 1 year. Made about 150 cases.
SoonerEd makes excellent points. Annealing properly is key, and your lube selection makes the task sooooooo much easier. With or without the expanding die!
I do have to ask though - was your case loss significant without expansion first?
I began with annealing and the COW method and virgin brass, then got cheap (AND lazy - cleaning out COW ain't super fun!!) and purchased the RCBS die. The die is of zero use without proper cleaning and lube.
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Following this, good stuff here.
I guess one other tip - tiny strokes into the expander - then 1/4 turn the brass, repeat. Repeat until the neck is where you want it. It seems like an immense amount of time invested, but it does pay in completed brass for me.
YMMV
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Your brass will have to be fire formed after you convert it. It comes up a bit short.
Stop being blinded by your own ignorance.
I just anneal the 30 06 and run it through sizing die with the expander in the die. I might lose 1 out of 200.
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Redding makes a series of tapered expanding plugs.
I've used them in the past taking .243 Winchester to .260 Remington.
The Redding plug worked nicely.
The 30 to 375 may be what you are looking for. Take above diameter, then F/L size and bring it back down to target diameter.
I would also expand and final size before annealing. I have crumpled shoulders when I have tried annealing first.
And I think if you have brass that may have hidden flaws, it will show up during forming not on the first or second loading if annealed after forming.
Been there done that, have fed the recycle brass bucket
I have a 35 Whelen Improved, and in regard to this OP question, it isn't any different than the standard.
I just neck up brass from 30-06.
I never annealed prior, and have used military pull down, once fired commercial, and cases from commercial 06 repeatedly fired in 06 chambers.
I have used the Redding die I have to expand the necks directly, and have used a Hornady die w/ the Eliptical expander ball.
Frankly, on initial upsize of the neck I Much prefer the Hornady. I bought a 30 cal Hornady Neck Size die long ago, and an assortment of the eliptical expanders 338-416 as replacement parts. Screw the stem very far down so I can change the ball easily and never run the case neck past the body portion of the die to avoid damaging the "new" neck. I have stretched a lot of brass this way for a variety of catridges that require forming.
I lube the inside of the case necks now w/ Imperial Size Die Wax when expanding, and find that 0.050" step up is easy in one stroke.
Clean the inside of the neck afterwards if you do it this way. I use a q-tip and gun scrubber frequently, or sometimes just alcohol.
There are threads here where people (including me) are using tapered expanders and going from 30-30 to 38-55 in one pass through the press, which is equivalent to what you are doing. Very few split necks. I don’t anneal first.
30-06 brass works with just running a 35 Whelen die through it. I think its the lee that has a good taper on the expander. found that out by accident when bass pro clearance had lee 35 Whelen die sets for 9.99 I could not pass them by. but I had been using either Hornady or rcbs. but 30-06 brass is tad short but shoots well in the Whelen I got anyway.
ive never yet gotten 270 brass expanded up to 35 Whelen it always cracks on me.
but one thing I think might be important is that the 30-06 your starting with be either new, once that is ONCE fired or annealed.
Lee makes tapered expanders that work in their 'Universal Decapping Die', I have their tapered expanders in 8mm, 338, 348, 358 and 375. Available from MidwayUSA. I use them to take 308 to 358 Win. I use two steps, 338 then 358. Two easy expansions seem to work better than just 308 to 358. Lee EZ-X Expander Decapping Rod I anneal after expanding. If you get case splits, anneal before expanding AND maybe after.
The RCBS .35 Whelen die set has a tapered expander plug in the decapping die that works fine for anything over the .270 Winchester. Its leading portion is too large to fit in the neck of a .25-06 case though.
Since .270 cases are a bit longer than the parent 30-06 case they are supposed to come out the right length when expanded for the .35 Whelen. Since I don't have a .270, I can't remember ever trying it.
I have to admit the very few cases I have expanded were of the "It is supposed to work, let's see" variety. All my using cases for the .35 Whelen are factory R-P.
Robert
May be I went the hard way about it but I run it through a 338 win mag die as a step up.
Sounds like the lee tapered expander is a definite option. The shape looks real good. Fact it fits in the universal die is a real plus.
Based on experience forming .338-06 I would expand the neck to .375 then bring the neck back to .358 in the Whelen die. Reduce the neck until bolt just closes on a chambered case. Fireforming nails headspace on the case.
BTW, Redding makes tapered expanders as does Lee.
Hornady makes a tapered expander I have used to stretch 7mm to 358. As others say, a good lube is critical.
Don't want no one to git hurt, but if you're gonna have a wreck, I wanna watch.
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