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Thread: Eighty year old brass

  1. #21
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by 15meter View Post
    Semi-thread drift, I aquired a batch of fired 30-40 Krag brass from the teens. First thing I did was polish and anneal the brass. Tried to full length size them and they fractured as if they were as brittle as glass.

    I'm assuming mercury bearing primers were used.

    Long winded reason for the question, when did they move away from mercury in primers?
    I'm an amateur cartridge collector, like to dig through the ever-present boxes of random ammo at gun shows, been doing it for decades. I run across surplus 30-40 Krag loaded ammo from time to time, usually dated 1917 or earlier. I've learned over the years to check, because more often than not the necks are cracked. This is unfired ammo, so I assume they were just made wrong, poor quality brass or something?

  2. #22
    Boolit Bub
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    I usually anneal the cases. Shot 1930s 30-06 brass with reduced cast loads without problems.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    Cracked necks in old brass is called season cracking....its caused by locked in stress from the drawing and necking process,and often takes 50 years or more to manifest.........It happens in any brass thats been worked,bent,rolled ,etc..........I had the original fuel and oil syringes on my Indian motorcycle crack open ,and partially unroll ...they were made of rolled and soldered sheet brass.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatelk View Post
    I'm an amateur cartridge collector, like to dig through the ever-present boxes of random ammo at gun shows, been doing it for decades. I run across surplus 30-40 Krag loaded ammo from time to time, usually dated 1917 or earlier. I've learned over the years to check, because more often than not the necks are cracked. This is unfired ammo, so I assume they were just made wrong, poor quality brass or something?
    I have some 30-40s that are marked 30 Army that have cracks like you mention, and steel jacket rn bullets.

    The 80 year old 30-06 brass is on its fourth drama free loading. I did anneal them after the 2nd firing( first firing 80 years ago).

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  5. #25
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    john.k has it nailed. From what I've read, it seems to be more prevalent in military ammo, which suggests less stringent control of brass temper. Military ammo isn't expected to go unfired for decades, of course.
    Cognitive Dissident

  6. #26
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    We have some 7.63 Mauser ammo from 1903. Last time I looked at them about 5 years ago the brass was not cracked.
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  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    I've got a bunch of 8x57 dated 1929 and 1930's, occasional misfire, but no problems with the brass splitting in these military surplus cartridges. Accuracy not bad either. Cases are berdan primed, but I have used the cases to create various dummies to set loading dies and such. The brass has been sound.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    It is important to differentiate between nonmercuric and noncorrosive primers in military ammunition. I have an old American Rifleman article titled "Nonmercuric, Noncorrosive Primers" that gives a through explanation of the subject. It states that "There has been no mercury in U.S. military small arms primers manufactured since about 1898." Mercury was phased out because it left fired cases unsuitable for reloading, which the military did back then. Corrosive (but nonmercuric) primers were widely used into the early 1950s in U.S. military ammunition.

    The article goes on to state that a corrosive and mildly mercuric Winchester-Western primer was used in some .30/06 and .300 H&H magnum Super-Match ammunition, but the primer and ammunition loaded with it were dropped in 1960. Apparently that primer was also used in some .308 Win. "white box" match ammunition on a limited basis; the use of the mercuric primer was noted on the box, one of which I have.

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  9. #29
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    nicholst55's Avatar
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    I have read about that specific lot of .308 Win Match ammo loaded with corrosive (mercuric) primers, but I have never seen even a picture of the box until now. Thank you, higgins!
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  10. #30
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Corrosive and mercuric are mutually exclusive are they not?

    And I believe the O.P. was describing unfired ammunition, so the kinds of priming isn't a factor.
    Cognitive Dissident

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    I dont believe any US military ammo had mercuric primers post the 30/06 adoption......corrosive ,yes........British 303 military primers are both mercuric and corrosive,having about equal ammounts of fulminate and chlorate......typically ,reloaded 303 military cases crack on the 3 rd or 4th reload,however reloading fired and reformed 303 military cases was once big business here.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master

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    I've been using WWII brass for years. I just anneal it after every trim. I almost never have split cases, but do occasionally get a neck split. But that is to be expected with the number of times I've reloaded them. Most of the loses are just worn out brass.

  13. #33
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have five Krags and like nostalgic headstamps, my favorite being REM-UMC and PETERS. i had dabbled with FA and commercial contract Krag brass but had bad experiences with the 1917-18 stuff. In Tulsa this year I found a bag o'brass so ratty looking that I couldn't even read the hs through the plastic bag they were in. I was allowed to open the bag and after some squinting I was able to make out Rem-UMC Peters and a lot of early FA cases, most of these had no primers. I figured I would get the cost of the brass out in cleaning up the brass and the fun involved in that. Soaked them in vinegar for a week, in the polisher a couple of days and then given the anneal. today I fired fifteen of the F.A. cases dated '02, 03 and o6. The cases survived without a bauble. I'll keep an eye on them for failure and potential for failure. In one of my guns i have an F.A. 08 case that has survived ten reloadings and still strong. Caution - stay away from those WW One time
    cases. They tend to have or quickly develop cracked necks. Catch these before they catch you.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check