303 British to 410 shotshell

[cwtebay]

Well, I am going forward with this but had someone trade me for 100 - 444 brass. Perhaps I'll do a bit of both!
Thank you for everyone's help!

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[blackthorn]

Please record and post your successes and failures on your journey as you go forward.

[nhithaca]

Bought some of the Norma 9.3x74r brass years ago to try and blow out for use in an AK style 410 auto loader (will only feed 3" shells from the mag). Ended up getting about 60 cases cheap on a discount table @ LGS. Only tried about 20 of them; just could not get past the wasp waist issue. Should have annealed them I guess.

Also tried the 444 Marlin for use in a 2.5" Judge. Not a good fit! The chambers on the Judge are stepped so only a 45 Colt will chamber, not a 454 and the odd chamber shape is tough on a brass case. They do not want to come out after firing regardless of the powder charge used.

Bought a fair number of the Russian steel 410 shells for use in the above mentioned AK 410 (2.75" long). They shoot and cycle fine but are Berdan primed. Figured out that the little dimple for the primer is formed with a punch and by lining up the correct drill size on the dimple inside the case I could drill out the old primer and use standard shot gun primers. Seems to work OK. Resized the steel cases on a MEC loader or 444 dies with a lot of lube.

Lastly, bought a paper package of British military issue 410 ball loads that as I understand it, were issued for crowd control!!!! Only shot one or two out of a SMLE that was modified specifically for these by boring out the standard 303 barrel to 410 and installing a plug in the mag well. Recoil was quite brisk and the shells did not want to extract well. Cases are Berdan primed and about 2.1" long. Lead ball is exactly 0.410" in diameter and appears to be harder than pure lead. Ended up buying a whole case (original wood box) of these things but have not even opened it yet (collector value?). Don't know what would happen if you shot one through a choked gun. The two I shot seemed to be loaded quite hot.

[Texas Gun]

Where do you all find 303 Brit brass to waste on 410 I have tons of 410 halls and i need 303 brass 😑

[Milsurp Junkie]

As I said, I would be more than happy to trade my blown-out 303 brass, for some that aren't. I have a couple of enfields, and not near enough brass to feed them with. No 410, and i am afraid it is going to cause me to buy one!

[cwtebay]

Where do you all find 303 Brit brass to waste on 410 I have tons of 410 halls and i need 303 brass

I helped out a group that has a Lewis gun. They reload no more than 3 total firings for it then they're considered unreliable. I can see why, I have had a couple of split necks from that batch. I ordinarily would offer them up for sale or trade but I don't feel that they would be a fair deal for most. The trade I made was 5:1 for the 444 brass, locally so I can make it right if there's a hang up - just to give you an idea on what I think it's worth.

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[cwtebay]

Bought some of the Norma 9.3x74r brass years ago to try and blow out for use in an AK style 410 auto loader (will only feed 3" shells from the mag). Ended up getting about 60 cases cheap on a discount table @ LGS. Only tried about 20 of them; just could not get past the wasp waist issue. Should have annealed them I guess.

Also tried the 444 Marlin for use in a 2.5" Judge. Not a good fit! The chambers on the Judge are stepped so only a 45 Colt will chamber, not a 454 and the odd chamber shape is tough on a brass case. They do not want to come out after firing regardless of the powder charge used.

Bought a fair number of the Russian steel 410 shells for use in the above mentioned AK 410 (2.75" long). They shoot and cycle fine but are Berdan primed. Figured out that the little dimple for the primer is formed with a punch and by lining up the correct drill size on the dimple inside the case I could drill out the old primer and use standard shot gun primers. Seems to work OK. Resized the steel cases on a MEC loader or 444 dies with a lot of lube.

Lastly, bought a paper package of British military issue 410 ball loads that as I understand it, were issued for crowd control!!!! Only shot one or two out of a SMLE that was modified specifically for these by boring out the standard 303 barrel to 410 and installing a plug in the mag well. Recoil was quite brisk and the shells did not want to extract well. Cases are Berdan primed and about 2.1" long. Lead ball is exactly 0.410" in diameter and appears to be harder than pure lead. Ended up buying a whole case (original wood box) of these things but have not even opened it yet (collector value?). Don't know what would happen if you shot one through a choked gun. The two I shot seemed to be loaded quite hot.

I'll bet those would at least control 1 member of the crowd! Wow, those sound a little rough!
That's interesting about your Judge experience with them. I have made quite a few brass shells for my wife's Judge - but only from MagTech so far. Now I'm not so optimistic about this Henry idea that I have.

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[rbuck351]

M42gunner:

What powder,amount and shot weight were you using? I use either 13grs of 296 or 15grs of 2400 with both 1/2oz and 3/4oz . 3/4 oz will only fit in the 444 cases. The 303 cases are fairly thick on the bottom 3/4" of the case and you need to anneal to the web of the case. I don't know why you would have extraction problems with either 303 or 444 cases unless pressure is fairly high.

[Mk42gunner]

rbuck351,
It has been several years and I don't remember for sure off the top of my head. I want to say it was 12 or 13 grains of H2400 with a half ounce of shot. Not real sure, but I did look it up in one of the Lyman shot shell manuals.

Primer was a WW LP, and I think I used a Winchester 410 wad with a playing card overshot wad.

If I can find the box they are in I am sure I wrote it on the box. I'll look tomorrow (no power in the old house).

It was weird the back half of the case looked fine, but where the shot rested was dimpled.

I know others have had good luck using brass cases, I didn't; and no more shotgun shells than I shoot anymore, I just buy a box occasionally.

Robert

[rbuck351]

I'm wondering if you didn't get the wad completely down on the powder. I haven't had real good luck fire forming the front part of the case either. I push the case out with a home made set of "M" type dies to about .408 using a Lyman 45acp sizing die that prevents the case from wadding up. But the ,408 expander will only go down to about 3/4" from the bottom of the case. 15grs of 2400 will fill the case up to where you can seat a cut off cup from a shot cup. The case will just hold 1/2 oz of shot with a thin over shot wad and I have good luck with this. I'm not sure it's worth the effort for me as I only shoot a few rounds a year but I gave a 6 year old grand son a 410 for Christmas and he needs some ammo for it that can be easily loaded by hand. I gave my son a lee hand press and I'm building some pieces for it so he can load brass or plastic shells if he can find powder and primers in Anchorage. Other than possibly having to thin the rims a couple or three thousands they work as they are.

303s are a lot of work and I'm not sure why I even bothered as I have about 150 444 cases. So far I haven't had any problems with brass cases sticking in my 410s but I had a lot of sticking cases when I loaded plastic cases until I started sizing them in a 45acp die.

[garandsrus]

Cwtebay, I tried to send you a PM. Your box is full.

[cwtebay]

Cwtebay, I tried to send you a PM. Your box is full.

No, it's actually completely empty.
You can email me at cwtebay@gmail.com

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[Mk42gunner]

I'm wondering if you didn't get the wad completely down on the powder. I haven't had real good luck fire forming the front part of the case either. I push the case out with a home made set of "M" type dies to about .408 using a Lyman 45acp sizing die that prevents the case from wadding up. But the ,408 expander will only go down to about 3/4" from the bottom of the case. 15grs of 2400 will fill the case up to where you can seat a cut off cup from a shot cup. The case will just hold 1/2 oz of shot with a thin over shot wad and I have good luck with this. I'm not sure it's worth the effort for me as I only shoot a few rounds a year but I gave a 6 year old grand son a 410 for Christmas and he needs some ammo for it that can be easily loaded by hand. I gave my son a lee hand press and I'm building some pieces for it so he can load brass or plastic shells if he can find powder and primers in Anchorage. Other than possibly having to thin the rims a couple or three thousands they work as they are.

303s are a lot of work and I'm not sure why I even bothered as I have about 150 444 cases. So far I haven't had any problems with brass cases sticking in my 410s but I had a lot of sticking cases when I loaded plastic cases until I started sizing them in a 45acp die.

I'm reasonably sure I fully seated the overpowder wad. I looked today and didn't find the box of remaining loaded shells???

The whole reason I started reloading .410 those many years ago was that Dad said I was driving him broke buying shells for me. A Lee loader, a bag of shot, wads, 100 primers and a paper sack of Herco soon followed us home.

The .410 loader was stolen from storage many years ago, but the thieves left the 20 gauge one alone.

Robert

[rbuck351]

Yeah 410 have always been expensive compared to 12 or 20 ga. A couple of weeks ago there were two boxes of old Peters 410 2 1/2" shells at an online auction that sold for $250 plus 15% commission. Other than that I haven't seen any 410 for sale anywhere at any price.

[cwlongshot]

I have had 40 on my bench sized up to 38/55 ready for fire forming.

444, had too small a rim for couple of my 410's. Caused many misfires fire forming them.

All but one take 303 as is. Have had some for years. Need more but have been stalled.

All also take the 9.3x74.

BUT of coarse 9.3 is unobtanium for most folks. Either because just cannot find or are cost prohibitive. Im lucky to have two boxes but knowing value I have hesitated to convert.

Even 303's are not commonly found. I bought two hundred and found them to be berdan primed. I should have been smarter to have asked. Seller was unresponsive.

CW

[rbuck351]

I converted my Berdan 303s to 209 primers and then formed them to 410.

[SOFMatchstaff]

I converted my Berdan 303s to 209 primers and then formed them to 410.

What kind of tooling/cutters did you use? One cutter or multiples?

[rbuck351]

First I have a lathe and I use multiple cutters. I started with a small center drill and drill through the primer into the berdan anvil. Then I drill through with the proper size drill for #57 primers as I have 600/700 of those to use before redrilling to 209 size. Next I use an end mill to cut for the primer rim. I really enjoy working on the lathe otherwise this would be more work than it's worth. Anyhow I now have about 150 loaded 303/410 cases loaded with 1/2 oz of #9 shot for final fire forming

[ulav8r]

What is the reason or justification to converting to 209 primers? I have 2 boxes of the 9.3 x 74R that I will use for my one .410.

[rbuck351]

Converting to #57 from berdan makes them easy to reload. It gives me a use for the 500/600 #57 primers I have. Once I have used the #57s it is a simple to drill for 209s. Berdan 303s are cheap, 9.3 x 74R are not cheap assuming you can even find them.