Load DataTitan ReloadingWidenersRotoMetals2
Reloading EverythingMidSouth Shooters SupplyInline FabricationSnyders Jerky
Lee Precision Repackbox
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 23

Thread: Derimmed .22lr brass - jacket lengths

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    9

    Derimmed .22lr brass - jacket lengths

    Hi,

    I just starting out in bullet swaging, making .224 bullets from .22lr brass and cast lead cores. I am targeting a 55 grain bullet. My first few batches came out with bullet tips of various shapes and sizes. Using 45 grain lead cores, some of the bullet tips had lead coming out, some had lead just below the tip, and some had lead well below the tip. Obviously, this is the result of using derimmed .22lr brass for bullet jackets, as .22lr brass is not uniform in length, even when sorted by headstamp. Furthermore, derimmed .22lr brass is stretched to different lengths, depending on the derimming tools that were used.

    To illustrate this, I derimmed some CCI .22lr brass with various combinations of presses and dies. I used a Corbin S-Press with Corbin dies, a Walnut Hill-2 press with RCE dies, a Rock Chucker reloading press with Blackmon's die, and a Rock Chucker reloading press with a die I bought off of ebay. Both the Blackmon die and the ebay die were difficult to use with the Rock Chucker, so I put them in the Walnut Hill-2 press after several jackets were made in order to see if the press affected the jacket length (it didn't). I derimmed approximately 20-some cases in each die. The results are below:

    (Note: All 22lr brass used was CCI 22lr brass)

    Corbin S-Press (http://www.corbins.com/csp-1.htm)
    Corbin Rimfire Jacket Maker (https://www.swagedies.com/mm5/mercha..._Code=SDRAWDIE)

    0.701" 1
    0.704" 3
    0.706" 1
    0.707" 1
    0.709" 2
    0.710" 2
    0.712" 3
    0.713" 4
    0.714" 3
    0.715" 3
    0.716" 4
    0.717" 1
    0.718" 1
    0.721" 1

    RCE Walnut Hill-2 Press (https://www.rceco.com/catalog)
    RCE 22LR to 224 Jacket Maker (https://www.rceco.com/accessory-dies)

    0.679" 2
    0.682" 2
    0.684" 3
    0.685" 4
    0.686" 5
    0.687" 2
    0.688" 1
    0.689" 1
    0.691" 1

    RCBS Rockchucker Supreme Press (https://www.rcbs.com/presses/single-...s/16-9356.html)
    Bullet Swaging Supply (Blackmon) "Die to make 22 R.F Hulls into 22 jackets" (https://www.bulletswagingsupply.com/...rice-sheet.pdf)

    0.683" 1
    0.689" 1
    0.690" 1
    0.691" 3
    0.693" 1

    RCE Walnut Hill-2 Press (https://www.rceco.com/catalog)
    Bullet Swaging Supply (Blackmon) "Die to make 22 R.F Hulls into 22 jackets" (https://www.bulletswagingsupply.com/...rice-sheet.pdf)

    0.681" 1
    0.682" 2
    0.683" 3
    0.684" 2
    0.685" 2
    0.686" 5
    0.687" 2
    0.688" 2
    0.690" 1

    RCBS Rockchucker Supreme Press (https://www.rcbs.com/presses/single-...s/16-9356.html)
    Ebay "22 cal bullet jackets from spent 22lr cases, complete derim swaging die 22 Cal"
    0.685" 1
    0.677" 1

    RCE Walnut Hill-2 Press (https://www.rceco.com/catalog)
    Ebay "22 cal bullet jackets from spent 22lr cases, complete derim swaging die 22 Cal"
    0.679" 1
    0.686" 2
    0.687" 4
    0.688" 4
    0.689" 3
    0.690" 1
    0.691" 1
    0.692" 1

    As you can see, the jacket lengths are all over the place, which affects bullet tipping quite a bit. Here's a picture of the longest derimmed jacket next to the shortest:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1.jpg 
Views:	24 
Size:	29.8 KB 
ID:	295672

    According to the above results, only Dave Corbin's tools (http://www.corbins.com) can make jackets of the proper length for .224 55 grain bullets (assuming a jacket length of 0.705"). The other toolsets can only make jackets of less than 0.700" in length. That being said, this isn't a problem if you're going to make bullets lighter than 55 grains. For me, I'll be shooting these in a 1:8 barrel and want as heavy a bullet as possible.

    My next steps are to draw 0.705+" jackets and trim them all to the same length. Afterwards, I will sort the equal length jackets by weight and use lead cores also sorted by weight. I hope that this will result in .224 bullets that are uniform in both appearance and weight.

    If I am able to make consistent .224 55 grain bullets this way, I will move on to heavier bullets using lead tips. That's the plan, anyway. I thought I would share the results above in case anyone else was in the same boat, trying to get their "basement bullets" as uniform as possible.
    Last edited by Red River Rick; 02-04-2022 at 02:19 PM. Reason: Ebay Links Are Not Allowed

  2. #2
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    50
    Thanks for your efforts proving this out. I purchased a Ebay die and have experienced exactly the same problems you have. I'm about to order the Corbin die to see if I can make up better jackets as I think that making jackets like this is a wonderful way to keep shooting. Your research along these lines is a great help in making some decisions as far as continuing this project. I've yet to produce a bullet that is worth loading a cartridge with and I see other folks who are quite successful doing this. I've been using a RCBS press and am in the process of using a pneumatic cylinder to power the press. I'm quite sure that would help with making consistent jackets. I do have a small supply of J4 jackets that make wonderful bullets so this project will really help me keep shooting over the upcoming years. I'll let you know how the Corbin die works out for me when I get my hands on it.

    Regards,

    Lee

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    9
    That’s an interesting find. I derimmed .22 lr wondering why that is, now I know. Thanks for sharing.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    393
    Are you annealing the cartridge cases before de-rimming? I have had very consistent results with the few I've de-rimmed but since I've several thousand J-4's I've not found cartridge cases necessary.

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    110
    Did all the brass weigh the same? I stopped sorting by headstamp and sort by weight and get better results.

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    393
    Please disregard my earlier post.
    Here is what I come up with; there are variations in length of my annealed de rimmed 22lr brass. I selected a CCI which measured .693 after annealing and de rimming and a WW that measured .687 after annealing and de rimming. After seating a core of 46grains ( to achieve a (approximate) weight of 55 grains I find the length of the CCI case to now be .674 and the WW case to be .6715; a difference of .0025. This is due (I think) to removing the bulge at the case head which exists after the de rim process.
    I suspect selecting cases of the same manufacture would lessen the difference but I intentionally selected different length, mfg, and weight cases;ie random.
    I'm supposing you are attempting to create an open tip style 55grn bullet? If so, I'm not sure why you'd have lead forming outside of the case with that weight.
    Best suggestion would be to contact Richard Corbin and ask for advice as you are using a set of his dies...

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Woods Cross UT
    Posts
    1,114
    Now you all have me thinking. I'm going to go through and see what mine come in at. On a side not I would say to get consistency i would only use 1 way of making jackets meaning the same press the same die and the same brand of jackets.
    "Consequently we move away from other shooters to remain focused on our passion, as our ideas are quickly dismissed or misunderstood by others. Sharing does not come easily for swagers, not because they are necessarily selfish, but because they have been whittling away in their only little world for so long, that being able to relate to others what they understand is no simple task."

    ​Mentor



  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    In the reloading room
    Posts
    381
    Just out of curiosity, I measured 10 jackets from my pile of CCI jackets. These are not sorted by weight, only by headstamp, and derimmed in a Redding Ultramag press with Blackmon's derimming die. The lengths are surprisingly even.

    .706"
    .707"
    .706"
    .705"
    .705"
    .707"
    .705"
    .705"
    .704"
    .706"

  9. #9
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Location
    Ukraine .Zaporizhzhia city
    Posts
    30
    Congratulations to all who are interested in this topic. Over the past six months, I have made 20-25 thousand bullets .224 using brass from jackets 22 LR. So I have some experience and the ability to compare the length of jackets)). I used Dave Corbin's equipment to pull out the jackets. And I will say such a thing. As soon as I started my attempts, jackets 17-2-17.5 mm long came out.
    At the moment I have jackets with a more or less constant length of 17.9-18.2 mm. Some jackets weighing more than 10.5 grains are up to 18.4 mm long.
    The matrix I use is the same. But the rods with which I push the jackets through it - I tried a lot. For my matrix, the optimal diameter of the rod is 5.06 mm. And it is very important to round off the upper edge of the rod. It is enough for about 3-4 thousand manufactured jackets. Then the rod must be replaced.

  10. #10
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Location
    Ukraine .Zaporizhzhia city
    Posts
    30
    If the rod is chosen correctly. Then your jacket will be smooth. Without wrinkles and creases in the place where they were before. And the maximum possible length. The average length of jackets around 17.8-18 mm allows me to make wonderful balls 55gr.60gr.62gr. 65 gr SPFB and SPRBT. The latter has a small spout of lead. Which does not prevent their use on semi-automatic weapons.
    I hope this information will be useful to someone

  11. #11
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    3,648
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex ZP View Post
    If the rod is chosen correctly. Then your jacket will be smooth. Without wrinkles and creases in the place where they were before. And the maximum possible length. The average length of jackets around 17.8-18 mm allows me to make wonderful balls 55gr.60gr.62gr. 65 gr SPFB and SPRBT. The latter has a small spout of lead. Which does not prevent their use on semi-automatic weapons.
    I hope this information will be useful to someone
    What is the ID of the derimming die?

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    In the reloading room
    Posts
    381
    Can evenly distributed lubrication play a role? I try to be consistent with the amount of lubrication I use, I use my own mix of liquid lanolin and isopropyl alcohol.

  13. #13
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    50
    deltaenterprizes

    The inside diameter of my die is at the top .243 and bottom is .219.

    Humb0

    What is the ration of lanolin to alcohol your using in your lube?

    Thanks

    Lee

  14. #14
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Location
    Ukraine .Zaporizhzhia city
    Posts
    30
    I use Dave Corbin's die. The rod which works together with it - I make independently. Because the original wears out quickly enough. The best rod diameter for the matrix I have is 5.06 mm. It turns out a good shell without wrinkles and as long as possible

  15. #15
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    50
    AlexZP I'm going to make one of these rods up and see how it works for me.

    Thanks

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    wisconsin
    Posts
    109
    The Corbin derimmers that i use give consistent stretching of the 22LR. I tumble the crap out of the cases with pins to get as much primer residue out. More even results then.

  17. #17
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    50
    Thanks for the tip Gew. I just precleaned a bunch of brass so will now clean them with pins and soap.

    Lee

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    In the reloading room
    Posts
    381
    Quote Originally Posted by cruisor View Post
    Humb0

    What is the ration of lanolin to alcohol your using in your lube?

    Thanks

    Lee
    I have used a 1:10 mix of lanolin/99.7% isopropyl alcohol. On my next batch I will try 1:8.

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Location
    SW Washington
    Posts
    144
    I'm new at this stuff, so this may be one of those dumb questions.(I'm sure I'll have more)
    Is there a standard for length of brass on weight of bullets? Using 22rf cases. Do we know how long a jacket has to be for an open tip 50/55/62/? grain bullet?
    I have seen a scale for the length of lead core, but not a length scale for the brass?
    Or is it all trial and error?

  20. #20
    Boolit Master



    MUSTANG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Kalispell, Montana
    Posts
    2,768
    It will depend on some variables such as the 22LR case manufacturer. There can be some variation of thickness which can stretch the jacket length when de-rimmed, sized and core swaged. Also, the Ogive of your nose (6s, 8s, 9s,etc...)

    I can get a 60 grain bullet with a closed nose using my Corbin 6s point forming die. Or, a hollow nose cavity with fully closed nose with a 50 or 55 grain bullet.

    I can also get a Lead Nosed bullet using 22LR for jackets, 62 grain to 80 Grains.

    I can get a 90 grain bullet using 22 WMR brass.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check