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Thread: Reloading Shot Shells

  1. #1
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    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
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    Reloading Shot Shells

    Since this is a new forum I felt compelled to be among the first to contribute to it. There are many people on Cast Boolits who have more experience loading shotshells than I do especially in the volume loading for the serious Clays Shooter for Trap Skeet and Sporting Clays where they may go thru 100,000+ rounds a year.

    Producing that many rounds to keep your habit going requires a serious commitment. Progressive Loading Machines like Spolars or Ponsness Warrens or MEC 9000's or Dillon SL900's, or even Pacific/Hornady DL366's can easily load between 400 - 800 rounds per hour. That is depending on YOUR stamina and ability to stand there and pull the handle. 400 rounds per hour = 6.6 rounds per minute,,, every minute for an hour. This is not easy to do and requires more concentration than most are willing to expend. Myself included. And of course some machines are faster than others. But acceptable numbers can be loaded without going insane. 200 rounds in an hour is 8 boxes, which is more than enough for a day at the range for most people.

    When you consider that you must also keep the machine fed with primers, powder and shot it becomes more like 8 rounds per minute (actual rate of pulling the handle) to make your 400 per hour quota. 8 rounds per minute is one round every 7.5 seconds while you are actually running the machine producing loaded ammo!

    Please note: For every few seconds you aren't pulling the handle you are losing production. Unfortunately times stops for no man! However man stops for time, all the time! Also known as "Wasting Time?"

    On the other end is where most people begin and that starts with a Single Stage Loader like a MEC 600. These machines outsell all others combined. You can do 100 rounds per hour on just about any Single Stage Loader. My first choice for that type of machine is the Pacific DL266. This is what I started with and I have a 12 ga and a .410 version. IMHO these machines are arguably the best Single Stage Loaders ever made, but Hornady chose to cease production because of broken tooling they didn't want to replace. Luckily there are plenty of used ones out there.

    Then on to Progressive Loaders which produce a loaded round with every pull of the handle and the Hornady DL366 and MEC 900 are the entry level machines. I have a DL366 that I got cheap and did some clean up and it works OK, but you really have to pay attention because if it fails to drop a primer the next pull on the handle will drop powder right thru the hull and you've got to stop and clean the machine out and then start over again. Most Progressive Machines will drop both Powder and Shot with no Hull present! I consider this to be a serious design flaw and to my knowledge the only machine that won't do this is the Dillon SL900. As such, I consider those machines to be the best out there. YMMV!!!! They are also the fastest as with the Case Feeder all you have to do to feed the machine is to put a wad into the wad guide and pull the handle. They are also super fast to reload primers shot and powder. YMMV!!!.

    Now back to the beginning. There were/are Hand Tools made that will reload shotshells. Lee Loaders were made at one time to do this. These are made to do a few rounds and have their place. They also require quite a bit of cooperation and effort to get really good quality ammo from, the final crimps being the main problem. I have had one for many years and occasionally load specialty rounds with it just for the heck of it. For the cost of these types of tools you are better off finding a used MEC 600 or similar for $50 and going with that as they will make better ammo faster and are alot easier to use.

    So this was a synopsis of the different types of tools used to make shotshells. Hope this brings some understanding to this subject.

    Randy
    Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 01-31-2022 at 05:44 PM.
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
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  2. #2
    Boolit Master


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    I have used PW 800s and 9xx series, Spolars and Mec 9s in all gauges. I think 800 Rounds per hour is a bit of a fantasy. And yes, my Spolar is hydrolic. The only way I think you can approach that volume is with a case feeder.

    No press has a final crimp like a Spolar or PW. I haveb no experience with a 366, RCBS or the Dillon.
    I have not heard a good remark concerning the RCBS for production reloading.

    If I was investing in a loader for 250 plus per week, look at the PW or Spolar line, if money is alittle tight look at the 900G. Hydro is nice but not a necessity. I used to load 1500+ a week in all gauges on 3 x 900Gs and a 8567 in 410. It took longer to load 410 on a MEC than the other two brands and constant tinkering with it. If money is tight, I still recommend at least a PW 800 for 410 production.

    I'm hunting up a CZ 410 SxS for small game use in a few years when I'll have more time to use it and plan on a separate MEC 650 or a PW 375 Duamatic 375 for loading 3" shells.

    As of yesturday, there is a 12 gauge PW 800 for sale in the BST for 4 bills. I'm surprised it is still there at less than half price.
    Last edited by Greg S; 01-31-2022 at 07:50 PM.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    MEC for me, all the way from 1972 till now! Tapered off a bit after Dad passed away, but not stopped! 2–9000G, 2 Grabbers, a Sizemaster, or three, plus a whole shelf full of MEC equipment, including the original 600 jr we all started with! I think there might be a dL something up there also,( got it in a trade) but it’s been MEC from day one for me and my family! Nothing against the rest of the brands, but we just stayed with what we learned on!
    Back story; Dad was an avid trap shooter, boy that old man could burn up some shot shells in a weekend! Case of 500 every weekend for 7 or 8 years. Guess who did the reloading there? Rain, or shine, hah, we even shot in an oncoming hurricane, then loaded up, and hauled it to the house!
    Yeah, I got a serious jones for shotshell reloading!
    I firmly believe that you should only get treated by how you act, not by who or what you are!!

  4. #4
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    Since 1983 I have used a Lee Load-All for 12ga.
    Aquired a few Pacific DL-105's and they were a vast improvement over the Lee.
    A month ago I bought a used MEC 650 for loading 12ga clay loads...What a bloody great machine!
    I'm loading WW Compression formed cases and it just spits them out, perfect crimp every time.
    I still use the Lee for Slug loading.
    And one of the DL-105 for loading 00 Buck and BB.
    I was given a 20Ga conversion for the DL-105, but don't have a 20ga.
    Everyone says that loading 12ga is a waste of time as Euro target loads are readily available and cheap.
    But there is just something about rolling your own....
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor.
    Australia

  5. #5
    Boolit Master Baltimoreed's Avatar
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    I use two old identical presses, a Bair and Pacific, ones in 12 and the other in 20. I use WW AA hulls and Claybuster wads. Building light cas loads only, think WW Featherlite.
    Last edited by Baltimoreed; 02-18-2022 at 11:26 PM.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master


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    Good to see this section.

    Got three MEC Sizemasters in 12, 20 and 28. Used an old MEC 250 for years and kinda got use to the concept. The MECs over the years have taken care of all my shooting needs. Before the MECs there was an old Lyman. This was in the days of paper wads and paper shells. I even recall when shot came in 5 pound bags and you could get CCI "caps" instead of the battery cups.
    Ran a hundred rounds of 28 gauge today.
    "we've come a long way, baby"
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  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I have loaded 12 ga, 20 ga, and 28 ga.

    Shot Trap competitively so lots of shells loaded. 15-20k/year

    I have used a couple of MEC 600's, MEC 650, MEC 9000, Dillon 900SL, two PW 375's, PW 800, PW 800+ with AutoDrive and case feeder, and Spolar.

    I am not a fan of MEC's. I am not smart enough to use them without dumping shot all over the place. If you are as dumb as I am, put a large cookie sheet under them when you mount them.

    The Dillon 900SL I had was awful. Had it set up for both 12 and 28 ga. I could never get a factory quality crimp. Sent it Dillon and they could not set it up either. BTW, the case feeder is a joke. Same as the one on the 650 so it does not hold many hulls.

    I like the PW's. The 375's are the best single stage loaders I have used. One head can be set up for two gauges. I have one set up for 3" 12 and 20 ga, and the other for 2 3/4" 12 and 28 ga. I only used them for hunting loads. They use the same bushings as the progressives. The 800 was decent but the old one I started with did not allow the dies to be removed so if you had a hick-up the machine would need to be cleared and the process restarted. The 800+ has removable dies and I added the case feeder (no longer offered) and the AutoDrive. The case feeder was great when it worked and a nightmare when it did not. The AutoDrive helps on long loading sessions. My "best" day was 4000 loads. Nothing produces better crimps than the PW machines.

    The Spolar is the Cadilac. I had it set up for 12, 20 and 28 ga. with Hydraulic. I could never get it to crimp as well as the PW. I had two buddies who also had Spolars and the had the same issue. Spolar has the quickest gauge changes.

    Case feeders are not very advantageous if you have an AutoDrive or hydraulic system. You have two hands free to place the hull and wads. I ended up selling mine.

    For a guy who needs a half a dozen boxes a week, a single stage MEC is hard to beat. It will take you about 2 hours to make 6 boxes. When bargain shells were less than $6 a lot of these machines got sold. The issue being unless you buy components in bulk, you could not save much reloading target 12 ga shells. But they are great for hunting loads and there is a decent savings there.

    If you have the $$$, the PW375 is the better choice and like I said, it can be set up for two gauges.

    When I downsized, I sold the Spolar. After 10's of thousands of shells, I preferred the PW800+ for 12 ga target loads. The machine makes a better shell and the Autodrive is quiet compared to the hydraulic system.
    Don Verna


  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    I have loaded 12 gauge and 410 mostly now its 410 due to supply and cost. For 12 gauge I have a Mec 600jr its been a great little press for me I've loaded probably 1000's of shells on it. It still works well for the little bit I do now, the 410 I do all by hand because I shoot predominately 3" all brass and I hand cut with punches all my own wads from cork sheeting, fibre sheeting, felt, all the usual materials. I have all the hand tooling from BPI to do plastic, but much prefer all brass, especially with BP, makes that little shottie a partridge killer.
    Last edited by brass410; 02-01-2022 at 03:00 PM. Reason: spelling

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Almost 60 years ago, I was 14, dad took me to a LGS and bought me a Lee whack a mole loader and components enough to let me get started reloading 12 ga. A few years of pounding shells together convinced me to buy a real press and I chose a Texan single stage. I didn't shoot trap but did a lot of bird hunting and loaded quite a few boxes for hunting. I liked the Texan and still do but haven't loaded or shot much for quite a while.

    A couple of years ago I bought a Texan progressive at an auction. I'm not sure why as I haven't even set it up let alone loaded any shells on it. But,it was cheap around $40 IIRC and it's a neat piece of mechanical engineering.

    About the only shot gun ammo I load now is 410 using 303 British or 444 marlin cases and home made wads and hand tools. Those are for grouse hunting and I don't shoot a lot of those.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

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    I have been loading 12 gauge on a Deitemeyer No. 100 since the 1960's. Loaded trap loads for my Dad and a banker friend at the age of 8. Got $0.25 a box. Been using the same MEC 600 for 20 guage and .410 for over 40 years. Reloading is relaxing to me so speed was never a priority to me.

  11. #11
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    I'm planning on gathering some primers, wads and shot (eventually) and learn to load .410s on a Mec600 that I got for $65 at a pawn shop. I have only loaded 12 gauge before. My 600 Jr 12 gauge loader was given to me by a late friend. It was set up for 1-1/8oz. of shot and Red Dot and I've never changed it. I've always just bought my 28&20 gauge shells for some reason.....
    I'll be visiting here in this department of CB to learn more about shotshell loading.

    Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    I load/loaded 10ga, 12ga, 16ga,20ga, and 410ga. Started back in the late 1960's with paper hulls, felt wads. I have went though a lot of MEC's: 310, 400, 500, 600, Versa MEC, Hydra-MEC, Sizemaster SM77, also have a Super Sizer SS77. I also have my favorite P-W 375 set up for 12ga and 20 ga. Also a Load All that the kids started on. I now use the 400 or 600 most as I am loading lots of black powder again. I load for both hunting and clay birds for the grandkids. I am looking for the Loading Chart that came with the MEC 400 if anyone has a copy I could buy or they would scam and send to me.

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
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    I loaded a bunch of 12 ga on MEC 600&650s . 12 & 16 ga
    I have a 20 ga Size Master .
    As far as a single stage goes the Pacific DL 155 isn't a bad machine either . 12 ga
    I don't know which model the MEC Grabber is but it works pretty fast too.
    I recently got a Texan progressive that hasn't seen a case since some time in the 80s . I think it's probably a pretty fast machine too , it's a shorter throw than the Grabber and is horizontal vs vertical .

    I haven't loaded like trap shooters do but I've probably loaded 15 cases of steel shot ......I really can't justify having 2 12 ga progressives , 3 more singles , singles in 16 and 20 ga and hope beyond hope that I'll find a 410 and 10 ga die set for 1 of the 12 ga MECs .
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  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
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    I load about 10K a year on my Spolar (w/hydraulics) to feed my sporting clays habit … mostly 12 ga with some 20 and 28 mixed in.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master trapper9260's Avatar
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    I load 10, 12, 20 ,410 . I started to learn how to load shot shells since the mid to late 70's .My dad started to save money for how it was for us and started with the Lee hand loader and then use to the Lee Load all then later I got my self a Mec 600 and also Texan . I still have all the loaders that my dad got besides what I got after .
    Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA

  16. #16
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    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
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    What happened to the new "Loading for Shotguns Forum?

    I thought is was all about Loading Shotshells with Bird Shot in volume like on Progressive or Single Stage Machines, as opposed to the "Casting and Reloading Forum" which was more about Specialized Loading of Buckshot and Slugs.?

    ???

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  17. #17
    Boolit Master

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    There's a new forum entitled "Shotguns" a ways down the main page, perhaps it's thr catch-all for what's not covered here.....
    "We take a thousand moments for granted thinking there will be a thousand more to come. Each day, each breath, each beat of your heart is a gift. Live with love & joy, tomorrow is not promised to anyone......"

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  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    I have used a MEC 9000 for quite a while now and the only hangup is the primer feed and I use the large primer system. Keep the plastic clean and use powdered graphite to keep the primers sliding. When I clean the primer part I use just soap and water and use the graphite rubbed all over with a cleaning patch. I did modify the primer setup so I could twist it to a different spot to keep the hulls from getting caught by it by lengthening the blade that sets the primer system off. I still watch the primer section when I load because every 250 rounds of so, it might flip one or drop it sideways and then you will dump powder in a case and have it go through into the system. I would say that if a person was not at least a little mechanically inclined, I wouldn't go with it. I noticed that earlier someone said that they would dump powder or shot if no case was there and that is incorrect. If your system is way out of adjustment, it will drop shot without a shell but powder, never. If you run a shell through the powder spot and then take it out, it will then drop shot without a shell but it is simple to look at the powder bar and tell if shot is going to drop or not. I have no parts problems and only dirt after a lot of shells will cause problems. When you get one, pay a lot of attention to the instructions to get it to reload with good crimps. I load with Universal, Gun club, AA, STS, and the Winchesters that have a large W on the side. My pick in order would be STS, Gun Club, W. AA, and Universals and all can be loaded with the same wad, primer, powder and load although they vary a tiny bit as far as adjustments are concerned. I set up for Gun clubs and everything else is a little on one side or another and still work OK. I have no regrets and came from a MEC Sizemaster before that and a Lee hand model starting in 1958

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    I see some people love what others hate. I've got a MEC 9000G in 12 ga, and also a Dillon 900SL. Love both of them. I've spilled more powder in the Dillon than anything, it occasionally misses dropping a primer, and it will still drop powder in an unprimed hull, causing one to drag out the vacuum each time. I got tired of the spills on the MEC 9000 when using the auto drop feature, and disconnected the operating rod. Haven't spilled a pellet since, developing a rhythm and keeping an eye on stuff. Have half a dozen other presses for shotshells, .410 through 20 ga. Mostly a sporting clays shooter, go through about 8-10,000 a year.

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy Lagamor's Avatar
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    I load on a Mec 650. For a long time I wanted shotguns in each guage until I realized I could load 12 guage down to 3/4 oz. Any lower then that is 410 territory.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check