Lee PrecisionTitan ReloadingReloading EverythingInline Fabrication
RepackboxLoad DataWidenersMidSouth Shooters Supply
RotoMetals2
Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 173

Thread: The best pump shotgun

  1. #81
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    1,171
    but $1200+ for a basic pump action shotgun which doesn't fix the safety
    That is MSRP...take $200 off of that.

    Do those Ithacas look "basic" too you, like an 870 Express or a Mossberg 500?

    Also, what is wrong with the safety? Admittedly, I much prefer a top tang safety, but I have killed a LOT of birds by hooking my index finger around on Remingtons and Ithacas. In fact, I am still trying to get retrained with my LH Remington 1100.

  2. #82
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    211
    My first pump was Monkey Wards Mossy 500, I was a poor boy and could charge it and pay it out, I drug that gun thru the gulf coast marshes for several seasons shot cases of magnums thru it and it never failed me, still have it.
    I have a mdl 97 that was my stepdads dads gun he said it fed them during the depression and it looks it, taken care of just worn, still shoots good.
    I like the mdl 12s had 1 son has it now.
    The wingmaster 870s get my vote though, have a parkerized riot 12, a vent rib field version in 12.
    My favorite one though was a wingmaster 20 ga. special field imp. cyl. short barrel 21 or 23 cant remember, that gun was lightning on quail and water hole doves, perfect balance, lightweight.
    Loaned it to brother inlaw for his wife to use on a dove shoot, there house got broke into and all his guns were stolen before i got it back. My wife still shoots its twin in a 1100, all the girls in the family love that gun.

  3. #83
    Boolit Grand Master


    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aberdeen, South Dakota
    Posts
    7,136
    Quote Originally Posted by bowfin View Post
    That is MSRP...take $200 off of that.

    Do those Ithacas look "basic" too you, like an 870 Express or a Mossberg 500?

    Also, what is wrong with the safety? Admittedly, I much prefer a top tang safety, but I have killed a LOT of birds by hooking my index finger around on Remingtons and Ithacas. In fact, I am still trying to get retrained with my LH Remington 1100.
    $1200 is the most bone stock M37 they offer, their lowest grade walnut stock, 12 gauge. That's not MSRP, that's the asking price, and it goes up from there. It isn't like I can go to a store and buy one. If what you want is a fancy, really well built bottom eject pump action for hunting, more power to you. I would expect that these guns are right up there in Winchester model 12 quality, possibly even exceeding it. Buy whatever makes you happy.

    You can feel however you want, but every design has flaws. The Model 37 safety is not the best safety position. Is it the end of the world, no. Are there better pump action safety designs, yes. The model 37 can't port load a shell, at least not without it being awkward. Does that mean it wont work, no. Are there better pump actions, yes. I'm looking at this from a design standpoint. Mechanically, what is the best shotgun action design. How well they are built is on the manufacturer, not the design. A model 12 is a well built shotgun, not a well designed one.

    There's no advantages from working standpoint to a bottom eject design. They do throw shells in a boat if you are duck hunting, I'll give you that. You are giving up port loading, and the ability to dump a chamber quickly (for loading a single slug or whatever). Safeties are a bit of an opinion thing, but they need to be easy to get to from both sides. A safety tucked up behind a trigger guard is the worst. You can say what you want, but a superior design, is a superior design. The only reason safeties are behind the trigger guard is because they are afterthoughts. They are only one small step above shoving a nail behind your trigger to block them. Slide releases aren't as big a deal, and I've never encountered one that was too bad. The Winchester 1897 is the only one I would call bad placement. Then there is loading ports, the bigger and easier to load the better. A tube fed shotgun's advantages are manual control, use the ammo you want, but one of the drawbacks to a tube magazine is low capacity. If you can't keep topping that gun off easily, you may as well have a detachable box magazine. Then there are design concerns for gun fit. If you have a design like Remington, there's nothing you can do but buy a different stock. A design like Mossberg allows you to shim the stock to fit.

    There's a million design concerns, the perfect pump action shotgun has not been designed yet. The Ithaca 37 is not it. You can like the gun, you can find you love how one fit you, but from a design standpoint, there are several pump action shotguns that are superior designs. The one and only area a model 37 has been superior to anything else is weight. Those featherlight models are very light.

  4. #84
    Vendor Sponsor

    DougGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    just above Raleigh North Carolina
    Posts
    7,394
    My most utilized is a Mossy 500 with several barrels which covers hunting with slugs and scope, and home defense with an extended magazine tube. There's no other reasons I need one although I seem to remember breaking some clays with a barrel I turkey hunted with.
    Last edited by DougGuy; 02-04-2022 at 09:57 PM.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs the "step" reamed to 6° 30min chamfer? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

  5. #85
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Posts
    275
    They don't get any love, but I have been running Winchester 1300s since the '70s. I've killed everything from starlings to deer with them, won combat shoots including getting to the prize table at Second Chance more than once, 25 straights on trap, never quite 25 on skeet, sporting clays, backed a bad guy off the porch, etc. I couldn't tell you offhand how many of them are sitting around here. They fit me, they are super fast and in my experience, solidly reliable. The one I bought in highschool is still running 40 some years later.

  6. #86
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    1,171
    There's no advantages from working standpoint to a bottom eject design.
    With the Browning BPS/Ithaca M37/Remington 17 design, one has a single big hole in the receiver to collect mud, dust, dirt and sand rather than two. Hunt for a season or thirty on a sandbar in the river with a Northwest wind blowing sugar sand or freezing rain and you might appreciate it from that particular "working standpoint". I know I do and have appreciated it, but everybody hunts and shoots in different scenarios. Everybody values different aspects.

  7. #87
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    1,910
    Quote Originally Posted by bowfin View Post
    With the Browning BPS/Ithaca M37/Remington 17 design, one has a single big hole in the receiver to collect mud, dust, dirt and sand rather than two. Hunt for a season or thirty on a sandbar in the river with a Northwest wind blowing sugar sand or freezing rain and you might appreciate it from that particular "working standpoint". I know I do and have appreciated it, but everybody hunts and shoots in different scenarios. Everybody values different aspects.
    And bottom eject puts all the empties inside the boat or around your feet, which can be a great advantage over shells tossed 8 feet to your right side.

  8. #88
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    2,794
    Remington built and marketed true left handed 870s, I got one for my BIL. Also the safety on the ones I have can be removed and flipped over for left operation, somewhere in the early 90s that became not an option. Probably a “feature” of the “new and improved” plastic trigger group, not sure. The safety position is definitely a personal choice, I detest top tang safeties on hunting guns. Too easy for people to put the finger on the trigger and thumb on the safety to walk around. Friend had a bird dog almost shot exactly that way by a gun club “friend”. No preventing stupid but using the trigger finger on the safety deters that action, also less chance of accidentally sweeping it off under there. M17s do not slam fire, I consider that a distinct advantage, why Ithaca delegated the disconnector when copying it for the M37 is a mystery. They don’t hold enough ammo for cover fire, and you aren’t going to be hitting anything slam firing. If you want a side port pump that is free of a lifter in the port, then Remington had that fixed in 1931. The Mossberg is a Rem M31 with the threaded barrel changed to a slip in with locking extension and al frame, oh and they messed up the safety in the process. The 17,31,37 guns with threaded barrels are thought to make better slug guns due to the more rigid barrel attachment, no personal opinion there. I can say putting a scope on the action of a Mossberg,870,ect will yield worst accuracy than using the beads on the barrel!
    Changing loads in a 17 or 37 is no problem, press the shell stop and drop one out, load what you want, stroke the action.
    None of this applies to 3 gun games, or maybe it might??? Real world SD, if I got a rifle I don’t see the shotgun as bringing anything to the party and certainly not with all the stuff added on. But there is a fully(5) loaded 870 in the closet with an 18 inch barrel. It was made in 63.
    “You don’t practice until you get it right. You practice until you can’t get it wrong.” Jason Elam, All-Pro kicker, Denver Broncos

  9. #89
    Boolit Grand Master


    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aberdeen, South Dakota
    Posts
    7,136
    Quote Originally Posted by bowfin View Post
    With the Browning BPS/Ithaca M37/Remington 17 design, one has a single big hole in the receiver to collect mud, dust, dirt and sand rather than two. Hunt for a season or thirty on a sandbar in the river with a Northwest wind blowing sugar sand or freezing rain and you might appreciate it from that particular "working standpoint". I know I do and have appreciated it, but everybody hunts and shoots in different scenarios. Everybody values different aspects.
    I've put a Mossberg through a lot worse than that. In a torture test, I expect a model 37 to do every bit as good as a 500, or 870. You will never convince me a model 37 will handle more abuse than a 500 or 870. Every test, those two come out on top, but that's also because they don't test 37's and 97's anymore, which I consider equally as rugged designs. It is a trait common to pump actions. There are only two designs that I don't think would perform good, and those are the model 12, and the Nova. I've not taken a model 12 into anything harsh, but such a tight tolerance gun, with that goofy lifter is destined to fail in mud, sand, and ice. I have taken a Nova into harsh conditions, and I have had it fail, but only once I can attribute to the design. Mud got into the shell lifter causing it to not come down in time. I've never seen any possible failure point because of a side ejection port. It is nothing but an asset.

    Don't take this as an insult. I enjoy most pump actions for what they are. Some are better in most ways, none in all of them. One day I hope to be apart of engineering an even better one.

  10. #90
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Eureka MT
    Posts
    2,513
    I have three M10 Remingtons. I believe they are the fore runner of the bottom load/eject shotguns. Yes it is possible to chamber load one but after opening the action after your last shot you have to be careful to close the action just enough but not too much which requires turning the gun upside down so you can see when the shell lifter just clears the opening to the chamber. If you push the slide just a bit to far, you can't chamber a round because the bolt covers the chamber. No big deal if you are hunting something that doesn't shoot back.

    In police use if you get a click you rack and try again. A second click and you rack it back leaving the loading port open. Next pull a round from the side saddle with left hand if right handed while keeping the gun pointed in. Then reach under the gun and slide a shell into the loading port base first, close the slide and pull the trigger. Repeat until targets are down or you are out of ammo.

    Any delay in loading for another shot could get you sent home in a box. Hunting is one use for a shotgun. Hunting people that may shoot back requires a little different thought process. This is probably why the 37 is not popular with police departments. Low price point is probably a factor as well as the reliability of the 870 and the mossbergs 500 series.

    When my buddies duck dog stepped on the action of my 870 and squished a big gob of mud in the action, I just stuck in the the water and swished it around a bit.It worked just fine even though it was salt water. I bought that old wingmaster about 40 years ago used and it just never gives any problems.
    Last edited by rbuck351; 02-05-2022 at 01:37 AM.

  11. #91
    Banned








    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    munising Michigan
    Posts
    17,725
    I love the brownings but if its bang for the buck a 500 or one of the cheaper 870s is hands down the best choice. Like i said im partial to tang safetys and only have one 870 and probably wouldnt buy another as long as mossberg makes one at a competitive price.

  12. #92
    Boolit Buddy pete501's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    386
    Remington "Pre-Model 10" was my first shot gun. My first gun actually. It was the only gun my father owned, he received it from an old doctor friend that had served in WWI. That was Doctor Glaspell. He was one of the first US Military to go over the pond to serve as a medical doctor in WWI. Dr. Glaspell had procured a German Lugar that had been promised to my Father, unfortunately Dad only got the M10. We were not a gun family, so the shotgun was stored away for many years. Later I was invited to a Duck Hunt and asked to use the gun. I remember taping it up with masking tape and painting the whole gun camo.

    I still have the old Remington, I would never sell it. Brings me fond memories and for that reason alone, it is my favorite shotgun.

  13. #93
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    1,520
    Mossberg 500, hands down.
    "We take a thousand moments for granted thinking there will be a thousand more to come. Each day, each breath, each beat of your heart is a gift. Live with love & joy, tomorrow is not promised to anyone......"

    unknown

  14. #94
    Moderator

    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ojai CA
    Posts
    9,872
    OK this thread got filled up fast.

    First it depends on what you are going to do with your shotgun? For Bird Hunting or Clays shooting any of them will work just fine.

    When you get into the Tactical Style of shooting then things change fast. We look at the Police Shotguns over the last 50 years and there have been M12's and Ithaca M37's but the most used have been Rem 870's.

    The Ithaca's are a PITB to keep loaded because the only way to load one is to push a round into the mag and cycle the slide. However if you run the m37 dry you are stuck having to load the magazine while possibly taking incoming fire. All the others with side eject can be Port Loaded which allows you to Single Load the gun and keep rounds going down Range .

    However the one major failing with the 870 is that little bump on the Cartridge Lifter that blocks the Ejection Port if the slide is moved forward any amount at all. This is there so that shells won't fall out the side if you are racking the slide while laying on your side like under a car. Others will dump the round on the ground, but how often are you going to lay on your side under a car? Believe me this is a problem with the design and they could fix it tomorrow! (There is an aftermarket Lifter for these guns without the bump.)

    This is where the Mossberg 500/590 series of guns comes in. I have 3 M500s all set up for Tactical and Home Defense. Be shooting one tomorrow at a 3 gun shoot. The Mossberg design has several advantages over the others.

    1. The placement of the Safety on the back of the Receiver makes the gun "ambidextrous."

    2.The placement of the Slide Release at the back of the Trigger Guard means you don't have to move your Trigger Finger to operate it like all the rest.

    3.The Cartridge Lifter doesn't have a bump on it, and it also doesn't move up until the slide is about 1" off the back stop, so it stays out of the way longer.

    4. The Ejection Port is much larger than other designs. This makes Single Loading or Port Loading much easier.

    5 The Mossberg has two Operating Rods and Dual Extractors which makes the guns more reliable. This is why the US Military uses them now.

    6. The Mossberg Design is much simpler than the others and has fewer internal parts and can be detail stripped in a minute and cleaned completely.

    This is why I like the Mossbergs best for Tactical Style and Home Defense types of shooting YMMV Last month I ran 10 targets with my 5+1 M500 in 17 seconds and that included 4 port loads off a side saddle for the last 4 shots! I have some idea where I speak. I also like Rifle Sights on my Tactical Guns as I consider them to be .73 Caliber Rifles.

    My Ithaca M37 was made in 1940 and it has no Disconnector so it will slam fire. This became a problem when shooting Skeet as I have been taught to Trap the trigger after the shot breaks, Cycle the action, reset the trigger, and fire the next shot. On doubles I was slam firing the second shot but was no where near the second bird. Luckily all the parts for guns made after 1975 can be retro fitted to my trigger group. All I have to do is send it to Ithaca with $75 which will happen soon...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_2173.JPG   100464676.JPG   100464614.JPG  
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  15. #95
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    237
    I do like the looks of that Ithaca!

  16. #96
    Boolit Master

    Eddie Southgate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Southern Middle Tennessee/ Hillsboro Alabama
    Posts
    1,177
    Winchester model 1912 or 12 followed by the 870 Remington .
    Grumpy Old Man With A Gun....... Do Not Touch !!

  17. #97
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    North central Ohio/Roane County, W.Va.
    Posts
    1,426
    Remington Model 31, Ithaca 37
    “Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry.”
    ― Mark Twain
    W8SOB

  18. #98
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    State of Denial
    Posts
    4,212
    Post #94 / W.R. Buchanan covers a lot of the Mossberg's perks well.

    To that, I would also add that the shell carrier's location is locked in location to that of the forend. If the forend is forward and the bolt closed, the carrier is locked against the bottom of the bolt and slide WHERE IT DOES NOT IMPEDE ACCESS TO THE LOADING PORT. If the forend is to the rear and the action open, the carrier is locked in the down position, BOTH PREVENTING YOU FROM TRYING TO LOAD TO THE MAGAZINE, AND PREVENTING THE SHELL CARRIER FROM BEING PUSHED UP TO WHERE IT BLOCKS ACCESS TO LOAD THROUGH THE EJECTION PORT.

    Those are major strikes against the 870 which I have witnessed time and again with operators who are less than 100% in tune with how the gun runs.

    From the viewpoint of working on them, the Mossbergs probably beat them all. It is probably the closest thing to a military-style, no-speical-tools take down you can find in the pump gun family. You can go to a totally naked receiver and easily replace EVERYTHING on it. The 870 has a lot of welded, staked, or riveted-in stuff that was never really intended to come out and is very bothersome when it does. It's trigger group is about 50/50 between "you can fix it" and "probably better to buy a new one", which I'm finding a little unsettling now that the Mothership's future is in doubt.

    The only thing I'm NOT crazy about on the Mossbergs is that I wish they all used the 590's open-ended magazine tubes that can be MUCH more easily accessed and cleaned than the closed-front 500.

    It's really hard to beat a Model 12 for sexy, or an 1897 for the sheer "John Browningness" of the thing. A lot of other slick guns from that era. None of them really offer the ease of service or switch-barrel modularity of the post-1950 guns, so that aspect really comes down to what's important to you.
    WWJMBD?

    In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.

  19. #99
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Eureka MT
    Posts
    2,513
    The 870 shell lifter never blocks the open action. It can be up in the front of the ejection port but if you pus the new shell in the port by pushing the back end in first like you are supposed to, it goes right in pushing the lifter down and out of the way. Trying to shove a shell up into the chamber from a bottom eject gun is not the easiest nor fastest way to chamber load a shotgun. 870 or mossberg 500.I prefer the 870 mostly because as a range master for a Dept of Corrections, it was the gun we used and I am very familiar with it and have a lot of training and range time with it. I worked at three different prisons and each had 5 or 6 870s. Two or three were used for yearly requals by every officer in the prision and had a lot of buckshot and slugs ran through them. In my 20 years in corrections, I never saw one fail. Can you make one malfunction? Yes, the easiest way is to put a round in backwards, and yes I have seen it happen.

    I don't like a safety on top of the action. As a Range Master I like to be able to tell quickly whether the safety is on or off when I'm training or qualifying someone. The top safetys are kind of hard to tell compared to the push through safety.

    For a hunting shot gun little of this matters as there is no hurry to get the gun firing or reloaded.

  20. #100
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    1,171
    Don't take this as an insult.
    None taken.

Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check