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Thread: The best pump shotgun

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    I always take the Mossberg 500/590. Just for the safety placement
    yup a tang safety is what would make me choose a 500 over an 870

  2. #42
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    The Ithaca 37's in the featherlights are good for the weights. They are the lightest pump actions I know of. Besides that, there are good reasons they are just about gone from memory. I'm a lefty, and the model 37 is one of the worst pump actions for left handers there is. The safety is in a horrible spot, and the slide release isn't that much better. It's a bottom eject, and port loading is not possible. I'd like a featherlight in 16 gauge, but other than that, they don't have a lot going for them.

    The Remington 870 has a great track record, and a long one at that. There's upgrades to over come their deficiencies like the poor safety placement, and smaller magazines. Not much can be done about the shell lifter though, and if you ever have a shell get under there, you are SOL. I've seen it happen multiple times.

    The Mossberg 500 also has a great track record, and fairly long. The safety is in a great place, the slide release is in a great place. There's really no way to jam one bad to where you need to take it apart like you do an 870. They are reasonably easy to load quickly, have a decent magazine capacity, especially for the 590 variant. You can use stock shims to adjust fit. You can't do that on an 870. There's really not a lot I can think of wrong with the 500's. A more streamlined loading port for quickly loading is about all I can imagine. Maybe a one-piece trigger group for tool-less disassembly.

    The Benelli Nova has two things going for it. The first is that it is by far the easiest gun to disassemble that I have experienced. No tools at all, you use the mag cap to push two action pins out, and that's it. The trigger group is one-piece, the bolt another. The other thing the Nova has is that it is by far the easiest to load quickly. The 3 1/2" action is long, but this allows large loading and ejection ports. Also the trigger group, and shell lifter are designed to funnel shells right into the magazine. The guys who load quickly like 3-gun shooters all agree the Nova is the easiest pump action to load. The super nova is the same thing, but has a removable butt stock. I'm not really sure why they use a polymer coated frame. Everything else on the gun is steel, including the frame itself. I think the Nova could be improved by using an aluminum frame, not that the Nova is bulky, but it doesn't look all that great. It looks like burnt marshmallow. The safety position of the Nova isn't bad, not my first choice, but better than a Ithaca or Remington. The magazine capacity is pretty bad, only holding 4. Magazine extensions exist, although everything Benelli is expensive. The rotating bolt is unique for shotguns, but does nothing good or bad for the design.

    The Winchester 12 I have little experience with. The slide release is in a great spot. The safety is in front of the trigger guard, which I normally don't mind, but the model 12 is tucked up so tight that you barely get any purchase. As a left hander, it is very bad. The shell lifter is the goofiest setup I've ever seen, a shell pops out of the magazine, and topping off is that much harder. It's basically a clays competition gun, I would never choose one for anything else. Even for hunting, the model 97 is superior. That all sounds bad, but that's only my experience, and the model 12 obviously has the trophies to show it is the sport shooting king.

    The Winchester 1897 I think is vastly underappreciated. Everyone is always looking at the hammer, but that is such a non-issue. Maybe it's because I was raised on hammer guns. It's old school, half cock is your safety. I love an exposed hammer as much as I love a tang safety. Especially for new shooters, I can visually tell the state the gun is in. What the 1897 brings to the table is a super trim frame and a giant ejection port. This is one area the Mossberg 500 could improve is to have a giant ejection port like this. The shell lifter also doubles as the locking bolt, which is a unique design, but it works really well. The shell lifter is shaped to make loading very easy. The trigger guard is the only thing keeping it from being as good as the Benelli Nova. Port loading this is a dream come true. The capacity is decent, holding 6 in the magazine, which is good even by todays standards, but it can not be extended beyond that. Both the model 12 and model 97 share a similar barrel setup, which is very rugged, but is outdated today. Some complain about the weight, and I have no idea why. My Mossberg 500 with 30" barrel weighs 7 pounds 13 ounces. My Winchester 97 with 30" barrel weighs 7 pounds 15 ounces. Put different stocks on the Mossberg, and they would probably be the same. Unloading the 97 is kind of fun, you can push the two buttons, and the magazine empties. The biggest detriment to the 97 is the slide release. Fine for a right hander, a little harder left hand. I have big hands, and I've never even been close to being touched by the bolt coming back, but sometimes people say it happens. That's the price of a super trim and slim frame. The only real knock I can think of is that the action is stiffer than a modern design. That heavy shell lifter/bolt lock combined with the hammer cocking make it feel heavy at first, then silky smooth. It's a unique feel, but not something I'd prefer for fast shooting.

    The Browning BPS is a little different. It's a hunting gun through and through, but not a cheap one. The safety is in a great spot. The slide release is ok, but not great. Fine for a hunting gun. It's a bottom eject, so port loading is impossible. The loading port is ok, about like a Mossberg 500. The magazine holds 5, which is average. I've shot both a 12 and 10 gauge version, and never witnessed an issue. The action is nice and smooth. The design seems to have changed slightly. Browning currently lists the 12 gauge at 7 pounds 12 ounces. This was not always the case. The 12 gauge I shot is likely from the 90's, and was the 10 gauge frame. It is about 10 1/2 pounds. This might sound dumb, but it isn't for a waterfowl gun. I'll argue the Browning BPS is the best pump waterfowl gun ever made due to the weight. Along with that the 10 gauge version is the same weight, which is quite trim as far as 10 gauges go. Lighter than any semi-auto, with the exception of the gold-10 light.

    There's a whole bunch of different ones today, but mostly they are a clone of an 870 or 500. As far as I'm concerned, the Nova is the last pump to come to market that actually did something different, and that must have been 1996-98 somewhere in there.
    Last edited by megasupermagnum; 02-01-2022 at 03:07 PM.

  3. #43
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    My fave is the 870. The 500 is a great gun, but I just can't get past the loose as a goose forend and nickel size gap between the mag tube and the barrel hanger.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  4. #44
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    I am by preference a SXS doubles guy, but I like pump actions too (but I just haven't learned yet to work the actions as smoothly and quickly as real pump-gunners can). My favorite pumpguns are Model 12 Winchesters because they feel best and most natural to me, and because I can shoot them better than the other types. Almost as good for me was an Ithaca 37 in 16 gauge. The Model 12 has one fault these days, in that I don't care to shoot the modern steel and tungsten loads in them in order to avoid possible barrel damage. I choose to shot the soft bismuth shot for waterfowling, but others who don't want to spend bismuth prices might prefer a modern pumpgun with a thick and stronger barrel design for when they must use steel or other non-toxic shot.

  5. #45
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    Ithaca Model 37, although as a Leftie I should probably pick the Browning BPS.

    I have seen to many 870 Express shotguns with broken ejector springs to put that gun even in the top ten.

  6. #46
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    I've only had 870's myself (and a couple of SxS but I digress). The original Wingmaster I bought in 1982 has served me very well and the Express versions do pretty good also.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowfin View Post
    Ithaca Model 37, although as a Leftie I should probably pick the Browning BPS.

    I have seen to many 870 Express shotguns with broken ejector springs to put that gun even in the top ten.
    I've been around 870's a while, and I had no idea they even had a spring. Looking now, it appears they use a leaf spring back there then riveted in. Apparently they kind of work without the spring, but not really. I've never noticed before, that's definitely a big fault right there. Most pumps don't need a spring to work. The wingmasters are a step up for sure, although I'm not sure about their ejector. The express's, I just don't see how people like them. My dad loves them, been shooing one since about 1990, bought his second about 5 years ago. Both have issues he ignores. They always seem to eject, but both have death locked with a shell under the bolt, and above the lifter. That shuts a hunt right down. Both lock up when you try and pump them. It's almost like you have to pull back, then when you shoot, you pull forward, then you can pump it. Both have had "duds" that I really don't think was the ammo's fault. The express's are not good guns at all. Really nothing Remington made from 2007-2020 was good.
    Last edited by megasupermagnum; 02-01-2022 at 09:07 PM.

  8. #48
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    I grew up on M12 Winchesters .

    I've shot a few 870s , a couple M500s , M37s , a 97 , Stevens 620 , 1200s , and a 1908 S Marlin .
    I love my BPS , but if not for my left eyedness it would be the M12s all day every day .
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harter66 View Post
    I grew up on M12 Winchesters .

    I've shot a few 870s , a couple M500s , M37s , a 97 , Stevens 620 , 1200s , and a 1908 S Marlin .
    I love my BPS , but if not for my left eyedness it would be the M12s all day every day .
    You'd take a model 12 over anything else for defensive use? You'd take a model 12 over anything else for 3 gun or other similar competition shooting? I can already tell you what happens if you try and use a model 12 in a fast paced environment. You will get your rear end handed to you on a platter.
    Last edited by megasupermagnum; 02-01-2022 at 10:59 PM.

  10. #50
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    Remington 870 is the Best pump shotgun ever made.

    Winchester 12 is the Finest pump shotgun ever made.

    Hunted Ducks with both, Pheasant, Dove & Quail too.
    Shot thousands of rounds of Trap with an 870TB. And some Skeet with an 870 field gun.

    Can't and don't have to choose between them.
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  11. #51
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    I have owned M12, Browning BPS, Ithaca 37, several 870s, and several Savage/Stevens 67s. While in LE, I used HI Standard and Mossberg(I don't think it was a 500 but it was 40+ years ago and I disremember the model) All worked, some better than others. Favorite? Probably the BPS, Ithaca and 870 in that order. While I love my Model 12 ( Inherited from my favorite uncle) it requires practice to run as it has several quirks in its manual of arms that make it harder to operate, at least for me.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    You'd take a model 12 over anything else for defensive use? You'd take a model 12 over anything else for 3 gun or other competition shooting? I can already tell you what happens if you try and use a model 12 in a fast paced environment. You will get your rear end handed to you on a platter.
    For 30 years, Herb Parsons was Winchester’s exhibition shooter known as the Showman Shooter. His signature feat was hand throwing and individually breaking seven clay targets with a Winchester Model 12, 12-gauge pump action shotgun. He was paid to use Models 12's but it worked very well for him most of his trick shooting years. At the end of his career he used the Super X auto.

    Others like John Satterwhite used a variety of pump shotguns to do the same but he preferred the Model 12. He liked the fact it did not have a disconnector. Those Model 12's were the smoothest pump shotguns I ever handed. If I remember correctly, he stated he had about 1/2 million rounds thru a couple of his models 12's. That was per a conversation I personally had with him in the late 80's or early 90's and handling a couple his Model 12's.

    The Model 12 is dated and has a very limited 3 gun accessories so it would not be my first choice. I am not a 3 gun and have very limit knowledge on 3-gun but from what I have seen semi-auto's dominate so you can say the same for any pump gun.

    For home defense I am very happy models 12's or 97's.

    As to getting my rear handed to me that will happen even if I am using the state-of-the-art wonder gun simple because I am not a 3-gun shooter and my guess is as a beginner I would not be competitive.

    Last edited by M-Tecs; 02-01-2022 at 11:53 PM.
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  13. #53
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    Wingmaster 870 - Express ~ not so much.

  14. #54
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    I maintained a Remington 870 armorer cert since 2002, or at least until they quit offering re-cert classes during their great meltdown.

    I have come to VASTLY prefer the Mossberg 500/590 for ease of working on, less stuff being "solid state" that you can't easily work on, having better placed controls, and for it being significantly harder for the less-trained operator to choke up. They're a lot easier to get rounds into as well.
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  15. #55
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    As I already said, the model 12 has the trophies to prove its worth as a clays shooting gun. As long as you don't have to reload it fast, it is ok. I was only responding to the "all day, every day" comment. As someone else said, the model 12 is about the finest pump action ever made, just not the end-all-be-all. No pump action is, but the model 12 is definitely in the sporting category, and lacking on other fronts. The Mossberg 500 is more rugged, and the Benelli Nova is faster to load. Even the model 97 is both more rugged, and faster to load than the model 12, and only lacks that super easy action.

    Thankfully we can own them all, pump actions aren't that horribly expensive.

  16. #56
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    I haven't had a lot of experience with different pump shotguns. I started with a M10 Remington that I liked but the trigger wore out and I found that this was a common problem and many gunsmiths would not work on them. A friend had a 1897 that did the same thing ( fired on closing the action) apparently also a common problem. The Ithaca doesn't have a side ejection port which makes them slow to keep shooting when you run it empty. Not a big deal unless you are using it for police work. No experience with the M12 but I haven't heard anything bad about them. The Mossberg seem to be a solid gun but there is a lot of parts in the bolt.
    I spent 20 years in corrections and was a RO for most of that. Our shotgun was the Rem 870. We had several in each of the prisons and they got a lot of use in training and qualifying Officers. The one 870 that I know of that broke an ejector spring still worked fine if worked like you are supposed to. Run it hard and fast. Short stroking is the cause of the jam up of a round stuck under the bolt and over the lifter. This can be cleared if you grab the slide with both hands and slam the butt on the ground. Keeping the gun firing is after you have emptied the magazine is quite fast chamber loading from a side saddle. Any way, my vote goes to the 870 if police work is to be considered. If not considering police work, the brand doesn't matter much

  17. #57
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    I prefer the 500 over the 870. The controls are where they should be.
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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    I haven't had a lot of experience with different pump shotguns. I started with a M10 Remington that I liked but the trigger wore out and I found that this was a common problem and many gunsmiths would not work on them. A friend had a 1897 that did the same thing ( fired on closing the action) apparently also a common problem. The Ithaca doesn't have a side ejection port which makes them slow to keep shooting when you run it empty. Not a big deal unless you are using it for police work. No experience with the M12 but I haven't heard anything bad about them. The Mossberg seem to be a solid gun but there is a lot of parts in the bolt.
    I spent 20 years in corrections and was a RO for most of that. Our shotgun was the Rem 870. We had several in each of the prisons and they got a lot of use in training and qualifying Officers. The one 870 that I know of that broke an ejector spring still worked fine if worked like you are supposed to. Run it hard and fast. Short stroking is the cause of the jam up of a round stuck under the bolt and over the lifter. This can be cleared if you grab the slide with both hands and slam the butt on the ground. Keeping the gun firing is after you have emptied the magazine is quite fast chamber loading from a side saddle. Any way, my vote goes to the 870 if police work is to be considered. If not considering police work, the brand doesn't matter much
    I know nothing about a Remington model 10, but there's very few ways an 1897 could fire like that unless the firing pin was seized forward. Even if your full cock notch was so worn, the half cock would catch it before it fired. About the only other way is if the gun was so filthy all the little crannies were full of gunk, which is surprisingly common. People didn't take care of guns that well back then. Either way, a strip and clean should fix it. The 1897 might not be the slickest, lightest, or fanciest pump action, but it has no functional flaws. If you were to to pick a gun that you wanted to count on to work untouched in 10, 20, 50 years, the 1897 is it.

    As for the 500 bolt, besides the locking lug itself, the bolt only contains a firing pin and spring, as well as 2 extractors and springs. It's easier to fully strip a Mossberg 500 bolt than it is to just change a firing pin in a Remington 870.
    Last edited by megasupermagnum; 02-02-2022 at 03:31 AM.

  19. #59
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    Best?? Perhaps my Winchester Model 42, what a wonderful gun.



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  20. #60
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    Nobody’s mentioned the Marlin Model 24 or 42. Easy to load, easily made into a 6 shooter, takedown, large ejection port, exposed hammer and very slick. Fewer parts than a ‘97. Other than those delicate flat springs, redundant safeties, lack of spare parts and warnings from Marlin not to use them whats not to love. I shoot my full stocked guns with cas loads most every month at my cas clubs shoots. In fact with 2 inch shells they hold and feed seven rounds.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails E79025C6-F6D4-4672-A3FC-148C1ABECE1A.jpeg  
    Last edited by Baltimoreed; 02-02-2022 at 11:46 AM.

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check