There is the Question. We have bought one and will shoot it.
Just looking for any real hands on info.
Thank You !
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There is the Question. We have bought one and will shoot it.
Just looking for any real hands on info.
Thank You !
"Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.
Mike,
Are you planning on converting it to central fire?
Kevin
Knowledge I take to my grave is wasted.
I prefer to use cartridges born before I was.
Success doesn't make me happy, being happy is what allows me to be successful.
it would be a lot easier in CF, than RF, where would you get rim fire ammo for it?
The rim-fire brass can be made using 28 gauge Mag-Tech Brass hulls or bought at $7 a piece at RCC Brass in Texas. But ya have to buy 50 at a wack !
To make a center fire breech I would find a spare breech block to covert. Not to many around.
"Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.
Would the breech block from a Model 1866 work? A bit more common to find.
Kevin
Knowledge I take to my grave is wasted.
I prefer to use cartridges born before I was.
Success doesn't make me happy, being happy is what allows me to be successful.
Nope... The 1865 is much different. But all things are possible with the correct application of enough tooling and file work.
"Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.
I have made rimfire cartridges for my Joslyn which is .54 cal.
I have found the .22 powder actuator the best. I dump the powder charge. The acorn blanks rupture sometimes.
The trapdoor might have a better gas seal encase of ruptures.
Last edited by Lostinidaho; 02-02-2022 at 10:38 AM.
I’ve had my 1865 First Allin trapdoor for over 40 years and just yesterday had cartridges made for it by a friend. We used 28 gauge Magtech shotgun shells. He plugged the primer holes and drilled and machined the rim for 22 short cartridges ( minus bullet and powder). I loaded them up today, but it will be c opulent of weeks before I can shoot them as my local range is closed.
I added a couple of photos. The cartridge on the left is a 56-50 for size reference. I cut the cartridges to the length shown in cartridges of the world. I did not make a chamber cast, but they could have been cut longer to hold 60 gr of black powder. The cartridge on the right is loaded with 60 gr of Goex FFG and the center ones with 50 gr. As my gun is carbine length the 50 gr will probably be a better load. I’m trying 2 different bullets that I have. Both are .587” diameter and at this time load with thumb pressure, but may be a little looser after fire forming the cases. I will be able to load at the range.
Last edited by Mgmradio; 02-02-2022 at 05:24 PM. Reason: Added pictures
Thank you for the fine pictures ! Those are well worth 1000 words.
That is were are headed when we are north next time.
For your reference Original case length was 1.17". Cast 40-1 was .590 OAL was 1.69
Several "shooters" have also suggested using the .22 nail driver cartridges.
Thank you for dropping by here and adding your post.
"Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.
As mentioned in your thread under cartridge forming, I have a centerfire .58 Roberts rolling block. This cartridge is very similar to the .58 rimfire. The barrel is from a M1863 Springfield musket and has a .594 groove diameter. After a lot of experimentation, the best accuracy has come from a .594" diameter minie bullet. Here is a short video I made about it. This was also the first time I shot it over the chronograph. I'm sure you guys will have as much fun with yours as I do with mine.
https://youtu.be/t151cMpjyxM
BTW, I've made a lot rimfire cartridges in various sizes from .25 to.50 cal using the offset .22 primer. Nail gun blanks (e.g. Ramsets) seem to be the toughest and work better in rifles with the large, heavy firing pins. Starter pistol blanks and emptied .22 cases are thinner and may be perforated by the firing pin. The mildest Ramsets can be used in large cases as-is with black powder to create a duplex load. Or be emptied and just use as a primer.
[QUOTE=ndnchf;5348666]As mentioned in your thread under cartridge forming, I have a centerfire .58 Roberts rolling block. This cartridge is very similar to the .58 rimfire. The barrel is from a M1863 Springfield musket and has a .594 groove diameter. After a lot of experimentation, the best accuracy has come from a .594" diameter minie bullet. Here is a short video I made about it. This was also the first time I shot it over the chronograph. I'm sure you guys will have as much fun with yours as I do with mine.
My Trapdoor has a grove diameter of .587-.588 the bullet is also a hollow base like the original and hopefully will shoot OK.
[QUOTE=Mgmradio;5348794]I look forward to your range report!Originally Posted by ndnchf
so how are the 22 shorts held inplace?
They are a press fit. The hole is about .002" - .003 undersize.
Well I made it out to the range today with the First Allin. I had a few problems with it, but I’m happy with it overall. The first problem with it is the grove that’s cut in the top of the trapdoor and hinge is not even close to deep enough to see the rear sight notch so I had to wing it as far as sight picture goes. Second problem I had we there was a lot of blow by at the breach. Not sure if it’s just a product of fire forming the cases or if I’m going to have to modify the cartridges or the chamber. 3rd problem was caused by the blow by. The extractor kept hanging up because of the carbon buildup. Also the bore fouled our badly after 5 shots. Will have to try a different lube.
The gun shoots high. I can not see the notch in the rear sight so left and right is hard to judge and I had to aim about 8+” below the black to hit on the target. I used 2 different bullets shown in picture 1 and both are hollow based. Targets in pictures 2 & 4 are with the left hand bullet at 50 and 100 -yards respectively. Targets in pictures 3 & 5 were shot with the bullet on the right.
All targets with the exception of the second one have 5 shots on them except #2 were there are 6 as I lost count. I’m not sure what happened on the last target, but I suspect it was all me and maybe a little to do with the fouling. My eyes were tired and the sun was glaring off the barrel.
Impression: If I can deepen the channel in the breach hinge aria and slightly raise the front sight, then the gun will be much more fun to shoot and should have good accuracy. We will see if fire forming the cartridges will cut down on the blow by next time out at the range or if other things will be needed done to correct it.
All in all, it was fun to shoot. I used 50gr’s of Goex 2F in all the cartridges except 1 which I used a full 65gr’ s of Goex 2F. The 50gr loads are what would have been used in a carbine and are a pleasure to shoot. The 60gr load is a thumper.
You are off to a good start! Did you anneal the case mouths? I've heard that brass is pretty hard. Annealing can help a lot with the blowback issue.
No I didn’t anneal it. I may though before reloading them again.
Remember the original cases were copper.... very soft compared to our brass today.
But your "winging it was deadly enough !
"Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.
Missionary5155, Any news on your trapdoor project?
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