Newest cartridge sensation; 8.6 Blackout.

[M-Tecs]

Beg to differ. The 10/22 is the gateway drug that leads to full-blown AR/AK addiction.

Blasters are blasters period. Accuracy minded people are not the same types and shooting a 10/22/AR/AK doesn't not turn them into blasters. Some blasters do learn about accuracy an develop in good shooter. I have never met an accuracy minded per shooter that turns into a blaster unless you put a full auto and Uncle Sam provided ammo into their hands.

While the 10/20 is not as modular as the AR's they are both very modifiable platforms with the high end tricked out 10/22's giving match rifles a run for the money. My most tricked out 10/22 is a Magnum Research 17 Mach II. It's has a stock carbon fiber barrel with the only upgrade being a Kidd two stage trigger. On the rare zero wind days it will hold 3/4 to 7/8 ten shoot groups at 100 yards with a good lot of ammo.

Never owned an AK and have zero desire to own one.

On my Krieger barreled match/service rifles they are solid 1/2 MOA at 300 yards for 10 shot groups.

I do agree that lots of folks that accuracy tricked out their 10/22/s follow that up with accuracy tricked out AR's. Both the 10/22 and AR's are capable of giving the best match rifles a run for their money if properly setup.

[Lloyd Smale]

Blasters are blasters period. Accuracy minded people are not the same types and shooting a 10/22/AR/AK doesn't not turn them into blasters. Some blasters do learn about accuracy an develop in good shooter. I have never met an accuracy minded per shooter that turns into a blaster unless you put a full auto and Uncle Sam provided ammo into their hands.

While the 10/20 is not as modular as the AR's they are both very modifiable platforms with the high end tricked out 10/22's giving match rifles a run for the money. My most tricked out 10/22 is a Magnum Research 17 Mach II. It's has a stock carbon fiber barrel with the only upgrade being a Kidd two stage trigger. On the rare zero wind days it will hold 3/4 to 7/8 ten shoot groups at 100 yards with a good lot of ammo.

Never owned an AK and have zero desire to own one.

On my Krieger barreled match/service rifles they are solid 1/2 MOA at 300 yards for 10 shot groups.

I do agree that lots of folks that accuracy tricked out their 10/22/s follow that up with accuracy tricked out AR's. Both the 10/22 and AR's are capable of giving the best match rifles a run for their money if properly setup.

Bingo. One of the popular deer rifles up here is the rem semi auto 06 nobody calls them mall nijas or spray and pray hunters. That has nothing to do with the gun. It comes from between the ears

[JohnH]

After reading this thread I'm concerned that casting bullets may be a gateway drug to judging and condemning people based on what they want to purchase and enjoy.

There seems to be a lot of this that goes on

[Daekar]

There seems to be a lot of this that goes on

Agreed.

While I totally understand the sentiment of the haters, I think there were probably quite a few people that said the exact same thing about folks that chose to buy those damnably fast lever-action rifles that you could load on Sunday and shoot all week long. They made people lazy and careless with their shooting and prevented the development of good marksmanship.

Objecting to the 8.6BO because it doesn't seem to bring anything to the table from a technical perspective is quite different from declaring that anyone who owns a 10/22, AK, or AR is a tactical Timmy who doesn't know how to shoot.

[JohnH]

Agreed.

While I totally understand the sentiment of the haters, I think there were probably quite a few people that said the exact same thing about folks that chose to buy those damnably fast lever-action rifles that you could load on Sunday and shoot all week long. They made people lazy and careless with their shooting and prevented the development of good marksmanship.

Objecting to the 8.6BO because it doesn't seem to bring anything to the table from a technical perspective is quite different from declaring that anyone who owns a 10/22, AK, or AR is a tactical Timmy who doesn't know how to shoot.

The Krag, the Mosin Nagant and several other military rifles were fitted with magazine cut offs for this very reason. The Trapdoor Springfield was adopted in part because repeaters were deemed to be wasteful of ammunition. The thinking at the time also was that a soldier needed a rifle that could literally stop a horse, as if ten men armed with repeaters couldn't turn that same line charging at them. There comes a point where quantity has a quality all it's own. When it comes to putting lead in the air, the side throwing the most has a decided advantage. "Covering fire" is all about this.

And while for many the 8.6 does seem like a ballistic joke, it does chart a course that may well be followed in the future. Most people don't make their own ammo now and states are moving more and more toward non toxic projectiles. Shot for waterfowl hunting has been required by law to be steel for the better past of the last 40 years, and many state WMA's require non lead bullets bullets. The 8.6 is designed around homogeneous bullets in supersonic loads and the fast twist does take advantage of the rotational energy to aid expansion of jacket lead bullets at sub sonic speeds. It's not a big change, certainly not a change like that of smokeless powder or jacketed bullets compared to black powder and plain lead bullets, but we are now dealing with a mature science and advances are going to come in small more incremental steps until something which replaces the current technology comes along. Do I need an 8.6 BLK?No. Would I use it if I had it? Maybe, but it wouldn't become a mainstay in my normal shooting lineup. Does it do anything that what I have already doesn't do? For practical purposes, no. But I also remember when the 223/5.56 and AR were thought to be flashes in the pan and no one thought the AK was anything more than a cheap toy to play with. Time has ruled that thinking on both those platforms and their cartridges to the real flash in the pan.

I'm seeing a lot in my Google News feed this week about the US military going to replace the 5.56 with a 6.8 cartridge that operates at 80,000 psi. That's basically a 20% increase in pressure, a level that has long been considered proof level territory. It is a simple technological step, there are only to ways to gain velocity, increase powder capacity or operating pressure. Compare the 357 maximum to the 30-30, the validity of the principle is easily shown. It will be interesting to see what comes of that leap.

[todd9.3x57]

the gummit and military has been saying that (6.8) for quite a few years. they are going to TRY the 6.8(cartridge case) in the squad automatic weapon. the military or the special operations people have the 6.8 spc and 6.8spc II. i haven't heard much about them.

i think i read that 6.8 (cartridge case?) is stainless steel rim area and then it combined with a brass body, shoulder and neck. that way it is 80,000psi.

[MUSTANG]

Class, which of these doesn't belong?



Noah

The answer is obvious - The TWO on the left and the TWO in the right.

[Fitz]

I shoot a 375 raptor with a 400 grain bullet running around 1600 fps. and a 1-10 stabilized it just fine now cast and jacketed do stabilize different but still 1-3 seems extreme

[JohnH]

the gummit and military has been saying that (6.8) for quite a few years. they are going to TRY the 6.8(cartridge case) in the squad automatic weapon. the military or the special operations people have the 6.8 spc and 6.8spc II. i haven't heard much about them.

i think i read that 6.8 (cartridge case?) is stainless steel rim area and then it combined with a brass body, shoulder and neck. that way it is 80,000psi.

Yeah, it sounded to me as though the SAW is going to be the experimental platform for the cartridge but once proven either new rifles chambered for it will be bought or upgrades to our existing m16/M4's will be made. Still, an 80,000 psi operating pressure is impressive. I wonder how that's going to affect barrel life.

[Rapier]

JD has had a lot of his work, borrowed, by others over the years. I would be embarrassed, to claim JD’s work as my own. I see the scum at the Shot Show and avoid them like the plague.

[dverna]

After reading this thread I'm concerned that casting bullets may be a gateway drug to judging and condemning people based on what they want to purchase and enjoy.

I wish someone had questioned what the heck I was thinking when a I bought the .243 WSSM. I had a .243 and .25/06 in the stable already.

The title of the thread does not help...looking for something sensational and we get this.

If someone is hot to buy this and I offended you...I am sorry.

[rbuck351]

I'm glad we have so many choices but I don't have an AR of any type so all the new cartridges designed to make the AR perform like my antiques are of no use to me.
I can understand why the military wants a new cartridge as the 223/5.56 is lacking against body armor at longer distances. The 6.5s and the 6.8s are probably a good choice.
Does this newest wonder round have any real advantages over a 300 BO? If so wouldn't a 338 BO be even better? The race continues to create fixes for non existing problems.
Anyway, ho hum, another wonder round.

[414gates]

Any new cartridge that manufacturers are willing to provide a platform, factory brass, bullets and reloading dies for, is very welcome.

Someone somewhere is

1. going to get into shooting
2. become more involved in shooting

because of it, and that's a benefit to the entire shooting community.

[414gates]

I can understand why the military wants a new cartridge ...

The military, if it wants a new cartridge, is being told to get a new cartridge, because someone lobbied for first rights to the supply contract. If the encumbents can pay more, there will be no change.

The military already had a good enough cartridge the first time around in the 30-06.

[Lloyd Smale]

I'm glad we have so many choices but I don't have an AR of any type so all the new cartridges designed to make the AR perform like my antiques are of no use to me.
I can understand why the military wants a new cartridge as the 223/5.56 is lacking against body armor at longer distances. The 6.5s and the 6.8s are probably a good choice.
Does this newest wonder round have any real advantages over a 300 BO? If so wouldn't a 338 BO be even better? The race continues to create fixes for non existing problems.
Anyway, ho hum, another wonder round.

i have 300 bo's a 300 hamr and a 6.5 grendel. If ammo price was no object like it wouldnt be to a soldier id take the grendel hands down in a ar15. Its accurate, flat shooting has very little recoil and hits like a 243. I killed 7 deer one year with mine and one deer took one leap and the rest piled up on the spot. Shots were between a 150 and 300 yards. Only two disadvantages are that the mag holds 25 insted of 30 and like ALL of these choices and why i think the 556 is still the best choice is they are all harder to control shooting full auto

[dverna]

Any new cartridge that manufacturers are willing to provide a platform, factory brass, bullets and reloading dies for, is very welcome.

Someone somewhere is

1. going to get into shooting
2. become more involved in shooting

because of it, and that's a benefit to the entire shooting community.

You mean like the .243 WSSM, .225 Winchester, etc etc that are so difficult to feed? There are others. Some, like this new offering, were destined to be "useless" cartridges from inception. Others became obsolete.

Right now, companies cannot meet current demand. Bringing out a "new and improved" cartridge is not going to increase sales much when they cannot supply market needs now. But the "new and improved" may allow them to increase prices and margins for the short term. After all this is so much better so it is worth more...LOL.

I am jaded because I was stupid and got burned. It forced a rethinking of what I really needed and not what the gun rags spouted as the flavor of the week. As a result, I shed over 25 weapons and many calibers.

Your rationale is flawed. New shooters are better off with standard offerings they can get reasonably priced ammunition for. People who shoot a lot, will not shoot more with a new caliber in their stable. When I am on the range for a couple of hours, I can only send so many shots downrange. Whether those shots are out of a .223 or .22/250 I can feed cheaply and easily, or a .223 WSSM makes no difference in how many rounds go downrange.

[sharps4590]

The military, if it wants a new cartridge, is being told to get a new cartridge, because someone lobbied for first rights to the supply contract. If the encumbents can pay more, there will be no change.

The military already had a good enough cartridge the first time around in the 30-06.

First time around for a self contained cartridge would have been the 50-70 and, I'm certain some argument could be made for the Spencer and Burnside.

[Lloyd Smale]

You mean like the .243 WSSM, .225 Winchester, etc etc that are so difficult to feed? There are others. Some, like this new offering, were destined to be "useless" cartridges from inception. Others became obsolete.

Right now, companies cannot meet current demand. Bringing out a "new and improved" cartridge is not going to increase sales much when they cannot supply market needs now. But the "new and improved" may allow them to increase prices and margins for the short term. After all this is so much better so it is worth more...LOL.

I am jaded because I was stupid and got burned. It forced a rethinking of what I really needed and not what the gun rags spouted as the flavor of the week. As a result, I shed over 25 weapons and many calibers.

Your rationale is flawed. New shooters are better off with standard offerings they can get reasonably priced ammunition for. People who shoot a lot, will not shoot more with a new caliber in their stable. When I am on the range for a couple of hours, I can only send so many shots downrange. Whether those shots are out of a .223 or .22/250 I can feed cheaply and easily, or a .223 WSSM makes no difference in how many rounds go downrange.

yup its tough enough to find ammo for the standard calibers today. Even a handloader would have problems finding dies and brass for something like a short mag. I bought a 6.5x300 wby last summer. Before i bought it i waited 5 months to find a set of dies and brass was non existent but i had it covered because i had alot of 300 wby brass. More then id ever use in my 300. But I sure wouldnt have bought the gun before i found dies because good luck finding a box of ammo for it and if you do you probably would have to take a loan to buy it.

[Noah Zark]

The answer is obvious - The TWO on the left and the TWO in the right.

What I thought when I posted it.

Noah

[brstevns]

I am one of the old guys 71. Not interested in this round at all. I do have a 300 blackout Ar but it was gifted to me. I just punch paper now, so it is cheaper to load. My 30/40 Krag, 7x57, 45/70, and 223 rem Single shots do every thing that I have ever asked of them.
A old RB 43 Spanish is in the mix as well, plus a 243 win FN Mauser that my Father owned .