Newest cartridge sensation; 8.6 Blackout.

[cwtebay]

I like John H's analysis.
Perhaps we are on a cusp and don't have the technology to make things like this cartridge functional (perhaps multifunctional would be more appropriate)?
Think where our military arms would be if there were powders other than rifleite available for the 6mm Lee Navy in the early 1890's! Or if the Krag had only added more locking lugs for the new 30 Army? In both examples 1 technology preceded another by enough time to render them obsolete. Perhaps there is going to be a shift in bullet design or jacket tech that will make this rapid rpm the bee's knees?
I enjoy these discussions, they really add to my thinking of firearm evolution.

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[dverna]

To add to what John H posted....

I sense many new shooters are not shooters but sprayers. We grew up shooting single shot 22's not 10/22's. We learned to shoot. Too many today are looking to technology to make up for lack of skill and training. And the gun rags feed that mindset.

New calibers have made an insignificant improvement in performance in the last 50 years or so. At least for the mass market. The .338 Lapua Mag is a game changer for long range work, but the market is so small and the cost to shoot so expensive it has limited appeal. It is not a .270 Win.

The .350 Legend addressed a silly hunting rule, and it has found a place, but not due improved performance. I do not know anyone using it in my area where we can use bottleneck cartridges.

What has impressed me is the improvement in bullet technology. But those improvements also help the old calibers perform more effectively.

I will never buy another "new and improved" cartridge. Drank the Kool-Aid when I was younger and learned my lesson. The new crop of shooters buying into the hype are going to be left with guns with limited appeal. What would someone pay for a .243 WSSM that uses ammunition that costs more than twice as much, if you can find it, when a .243 Win is less than 200 fps slower with 100 gr bullets?

The 8.6 offers so little for the average Joe/Jane it is shocking companies will produce it. It telegraphs how little respect they have for customers. But at least they are making money on it. Gun rag writers promoting it should be taken to task IMO. People jumping on this wagon are going to have a short and rough ride, but "pain" is how people learn.

[pertnear]

It'd be really something if it would work in a AR15 platform.

I apologize for being a heretic, but I never did understand the AR10 attraction. Take the AR15 & super-size it until it can take a next-step-bigger cartridge. Of course the trade-off is weight, length & cost. Surely there are already several good semi-auto rifles around that will handle any cartridge you like, if semi-auto is the big attraction. JIMHO

[Lloyd Smale]

The next thing we will "need" is a 9.3 , a 10m/m and a 11.25 blackout .

Jack

11.25 blackout allready exists. Its a 50 beo ran by hand. I guess my point is it sure doesnt fill a hole i need filled in the safe. Id hate to bother with a new round today with the price of ammo and even the availability of brass for it and the cost of it. Kind of why i never bothered with the 350. Which in my opinion makes more sense if for no other reason then you can get a light handy ar15 chambered for it. If i want power in an ar10 id go to a 300wsm. Sure it wont go subsonic but for the little i use the cans i have its a non issue. Im not buying a 1500 dollar ar10 a 1000 dollar can for it and then chasing components. All to gain very little to nothing over whats already there. But if you have the money or desire go for it. IMO the more guns sold the better it is for us gun owners.

[DougGuy]

All to gain very little to nothing over whats already there. But if you have the money or desire go for it. IMO the more guns sold the better it is for us gun owners.

If we lived in a society where we could have say two calibers for hunting in the AR15 platform, one straight wall for the straight wall states, and one bottleneck, and these two were both tried and true game getters, I think the point to be made would be hunting, stalking, and tracking skills, and shot placement. Which, should be taught like the bible, honed, polished, and handed down to younger generations. There would be less distractions that all these new wildcats introduce, and I think hunters would be MUCH better at their game and a lot more confident marksmen.

We will never have to worry about the above scenario, just making a point.

[Idaho45guy]

If we lived in a society where we could have say two calibers for hunting in the AR15 platform, one straight wall for the straight wall states, and one bottleneck, and these two were both tried and true game getters, I think the point to be made would be hunting, stalking, and tracking skills, and shot placement. Which, should be taught like the bible, honed, polished, and handed down to younger generations. There would be less distractions that all these new wildcats introduce, and I think hunters would be MUCH better at their game and a lot more confident marksmen.

We will never have to worry about the above scenario, just making a point.

Good point. I am a fan of the simplifying philosophy and am trying to consolidate firearms down to just a few calibers. For my carry gun, I am in the process of having only two pistols that I use; a compact 10mm and a subcompact 9mm. My primary hunting rifles are in .308 and .30-06 AI.

I see the advantage in having one gun I grab for each task that has one load I developed for it that I know how it performs to a great degree.

[cwtebay]

11.25 blackout allready exists. Its a 50 beo ran by hand. I guess my point is it sure doesnt fill a hole i need filled in the safe. Id hate to bother with a new round today with the price of ammo and even the availability of brass for it and the cost of it. Kind of why i never bothered with the 350. Which in my opinion makes more sense if for no other reason then you can get a light handy ar15 chambered for it. If i want power in an ar10 id go to a 300wsm. Sure it wont go subsonic but for the little i use the cans i have its a non issue. Im not buying a 1500 dollar ar10 a 1000 dollar can for it and then chasing components. All to gain very little to nothing over whats already there. But if you have the money or desire go for it. IMO the more guns sold the better it is for us gun owners.

While I don't have an AR 10 in 300 WSM, I do have one in 300 SAUM. I think that you commented on it when I got it last summer. I don't necessarily enjoy it as much as other rifles that I own, but the circumstances in which I acquired it and components made it attractive. I also concur with the statement about owning a battle rifle.
It definitely hits hard when loaded full giddy up, but I have been able to tone it down to sub level with a heavy bullet and trail boss. Makes it a bit more of an interesting rifle!

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[todd9.3x57]

To add to what John H posted....

I sense many new shooters are not shooters but sprayers. We grew up shooting single shot 22's not 10/22's. We learned to shoot. Too many today are looking to technology to make up for lack of skill and training. And the gun rags feed that mindset.

New calibers have made an insignificant improvement in performance in the last 50 years or so. At least for the mass market. The .338 Lapua Mag is a game changer for long range work, but the market is so small and the cost to shoot so expensive it has limited appeal. It is not a .270 Win.

The .350 Legend addressed a silly hunting rule, and it has found a place, but not due improved performance. I do not know anyone using it in my area where we can use bottleneck cartridges.

What has impressed me is the improvement in bullet technology. But those improvements also help the old calibers perform more effectively.

I will never buy another "new and improved" cartridge. Drank the Kool-Aid when I was younger and learned my lesson. The new crop of shooters buying into the hype are going to be left with guns with limited appeal. What would someone pay for a .243 WSSM that uses ammunition that costs more than twice as much, if you can find it, when a .243 Win is less than 200 fps slower with 100 gr bullets?

The 8.6 offers so little for the average Joe/Jane it is shocking companies will produce it. It telegraphs how little respect they have for customers. But at least they are making money on it. Gun rag writers promoting it should be taken to task IMO. People jumping on this wagon are going to have a short and rough ride, but "pain" is how people learn.

its not the 10/22, but the AR's and the AK's that makes spray and pray "shooters".

the 350 legend isn't needed, the 358 maximum was already there.

i drank my glass of kool-aide when i bought the 6.5 creedmoor(tc encore 15, 16 1/4 and 23" MGM barrels) when it was new. the 260 rem is in the same boat, a cartridge that is not needed. a 6.5x55 swede (which i already own is going to my son) is what's needed. now i use a 20 vartarg and 34gr midway/midsouth hp for varmints.

the win short mags and the remmy ultra mags are an EXPENSIVE joke.

the bullet technology is great, but i use cast boolits for medium and large game. i drank my first glass of kool-aide when Barnes x bullet came out and it soured on me. i should have learned back then.

i'm one of those guys that hates plastic guns, like the AR and AK's and the cheap rifle stocks. its wood and blued for me. preferably pre 1960's rifles. i have two cartridges that are not, 20 vartarg and the 500 linebaugh in single shot rifles, but you could say that i have 7-08 in rem m7(early version).

the 8.6 blackout is a gun rag writers dream.

[cwtebay]

its not the 10/22, but the AR's and the AK's that makes spray and pray "shooters".

the 350 legend isn't needed, the 358 maximum was already there.

i drank my glass of kool-aide when i bought the 6.5 creedmoor(tc encore 15, 16 1/4 and 23" MGM barrels) when it was new. the 260 rem is in the same boat, a cartridge that is not needed. a 6.5x55 swede (which i already own is going to my son) is what's needed. now i use a 20 vartarg and 34gr midway/midsouth hp for varmints.

the win short mags and the remmy ultra mags are an EXPENSIVE joke.

the bullet technology is great, but i use cast boolits for medium and large game. i drank my first glass of kool-aide when Barnes x bullet came out and it soured on me. i should have learned back then.

i'm one of those guys that hates plastic guns, like the AR and AK's and the cheap rifle stocks. its wood and blued for me. preferably pre 1960's rifles. i have two cartridges that are not, 20 vartarg and the 500 linebaugh in single shot rifles, but you could say that i have 7-08 in rem m7(early version).

the 8.6 blackout is a gun rag writers dream.

So...my Egyptian Maadi is in your wheelhouse?

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[uscra112]

its not the 10/22, but the AR's and the AK's that makes spray and pray "shooters".

Beg to differ. The 10/22 is the gateway drug that leads to full-blown AR/AK addiction.

[ulav8r]

It will probably end up like the 30RAR and the WSSM,s, A handloading only cartridge IF you can find brass for it.

When the 30RAR was announced, I hoped it would go over big because I though the brass would be great for a 25 wildcat and a 35 or 375. I don't think brass ever was available in quantities to even feed the 4 or 5 rifles sold.

[cwtebay]

It will probably end up like the 30RAR and the WSSM,s, A handloading only cartridge IF you can find brass for it.

When the 30RAR was announced, I hoped it would go over big because I though the brass would be great for a 25 wildcat and a 35 or 375. I don't think brass ever was available in quantities to even feed the 4 or 5 rifles sold.

I have often wondered how many boxes of ammunition were sold to fellas with model 8 or 81 or pumps that only read the 30 Remington part of the label.
I say that because I saw a guy trying to return some because "it wouldn't fit in his rifle " I only speculated on what that could have meant.

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[Texas by God]

Nope for me, thanks. As far as AR10s go, if I have to carry that much weight it will be a full strength .338 Federal or .358 Winchester. As far as a bolt action 8.9 SBR; again no thanks!

[Jimmynostars]

9x39 kissing cousins?

[rking22]

Beg to differ. The 10/22 is the gateway drug that leads to full-blown AR/AK addiction.

Not universally true, a 10-22 is no different than a single shot to me, it just has this handy place to store 10 more 22 shells. Never owned an AK and sold the AR because it was about as interesting as a toaster.

[kenton]

After reading this thread I'm concerned that casting bullets may be a gateway drug to judging and condemning people based on what they want to purchase and enjoy.

[DDriller]

My .338 Spectre does basically the same thing in an AR-15. My twist rate is 1:6.5 to stabilize 300 grain subsonic rounds. Simply a 10mm magnum case necked to .338. Uses the same bolt as the 6.8 spc.

[todd9.3x57]

So...my Egyptian Maadi is in your wheelhouse?

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its not in my wheelhouse.

i used to be in the US Army and i had my fill of automatic weapons, like the m16a1 and a2, m60, m240, m203, ma deuce, ak 47 and 74, akm, pkm, draganov, val, rpd and rpk and some chinese weapons.

[Noah Zark]

Class, which of these doesn't belong?



Noah

[todd9.3x57]

Beg to differ. The 10/22 is the gateway drug that leads to full-blown AR/AK addiction.

i didn't buy my 10/22 until 3 or 4 years ago. it isn't the most accurate rimfire, but it does federal hp at 1"+/- at 50 yards. remington 40gr rn is around 3 - 4" at 50 yards.