CZ 527 to convert to 25cal 25/223 project

[unclemikeinct]

Morning Gents..First post..I ordered a CZ527 carbine in .223 to convert to a .257/223 project ...I'm wanting to have a gunsmith just rebore the barrel to 257 Dia. & leave the chamber as is..I want this carbine to shoot the Lyman 65 Gr gas checked cast bullet & up to say 90 Gr Jacketed stuff...The old 25-20 used a 1-14 twist..My old 257 Roberts shot this bullet pretty well using a one in ten twist rate..My plan is to split the Diff on the conversion..1 in 12...not sure of the number pattern lands grooves..Any thoughts you would like to add to this project that can help me avoid pitfalls in the design would be appreciated...Mike

[northmn]

I saw one mentioned once called a 25 Sharps. It ahd the wrong designation for a Sharps but it was a modern cartridge and was a 223 opened up to 25 caliber designed to use the lighter weight bullets. It was not a 117-120 grain proposition. Seen a lot of them opened up to 243 also and they tend to use the lightweight bullets. Check around on the Sharps design.

DP

[square butte]

I think 1 in 12 is considered about ideal for the 25-20 wcf. 1 in 14 in the old Winchesters seem to like the lighter bullets - Less so the 85-90 grainers. My info on that comes from the extensive thread on 25-20 reloaders thread over at the Marlin Owners website.

[roysha]

Do a search here on castboolits for 25/222 Copperhead. Although it is for the 222 rather than the 223, the majority of the information is applicable to the 25-223.

For what it's worth, unless you absolutely have to have the factory barrel, I really feel you would be better served just rebarreling using good quality barrel such as Green Mountain or something similar. "Just reboring and rerifling" isn't as simple or cheap as it sounds. Most gunsmiths I know do not have the machinery nor skills to do a really good job. I think the cost would be quite similar and then you could always go back to the factory 223 barrel if you were unhappy with the 25-223.

This little cartridge is one of those that performs way beyond what one would expect. Accurate, efficient, mild recoil and just plain fun to shoot.

[unclemikeinct]

Thank you all...It took some doing to find a guy to offer to Rebore that short 18.5 inch carbine barrel..I like the look w the iron sights from the factory..Only saving $200 compared to a new barrel..I'm taking a chance w that option..This conversion is called {I don't know Why} The 25-45 Sharps...I need to order up the reloading dies or cobble together something that will work..The reason for this caliber in this rifle..I'm retired Now..I have wanted a custom made pee wee sized rifle in 25 bore for thirty years..My first crude thumbnail sketch of this from 1979 project was a Ruger # 3 chambered in .256 Win Mag.That is a 357mag. necked down to 257 bore..I liked that hand me down bullet mold I had used in my 257 Roberts so much...I figured it deserved a dedicated rifle just for that bullet.The .223 case is cheap & plentiful.[possibly not the best choice due to short neck].But..If I have primers & some Unique powder I'll never be waiting to find some 22lr ammo just to plink with...I found some old notes about that lyman cast bullet..Using it in my 257 Roberts..As cast,pressing the GC on by hand & lubing with my fingers..The only prep to the case was careful flaring with a tapered drift punch..At 50yds it beat my 22LR..At 100yds that load of Unique 7 Grains was keeping them 1 to 1.25 inch groups..I fooled w using pistol primers & graphite lubing the case necks..That old Ruger 257 Roberts is sold I don't miss the trigger or the long throat in that barrel...Thanks Again, Mike

[Nrut]

I would make up some dummy rds. to make sure the bullets you want to use fit the DBM and FEED..
Shouldn't be any problem with your Lyman 65 gr. but might be a problem with the 90 gr. jacketed bullet..
Also I would send the dummy rds. in with the rifle and asked the the rifle be throated so the bullets are .005"- .010" into the lands min. when chambered..

Keep records an photo's of your build and please do a write up when you have your rifle up and running..
Sure many here would be interested in building the same or similar as you are doing..

Myself I am going to have my Remington M7 .223 rebarreled to a 6X45 twisted and throated to shoot a 105 A-Max this coming winter if I can swing it $$$ wise on my pension..

[unclemikeinct]

NRUT...Thank You, I'm going to send that rifle right out to Dan Pedersen in AZ..He is running 4 months out.He said he has the perfect throat reamer for that cast bullet & up to 90 grains jacketed won't be an issue..So there will be no before & after photo's...Just the After pic's w the bullets...Can you tell me more about your 6x45 to run the 105 AMAX...??? I run that bullet in a standard 243 Win. out to 800 yds..I have been told reaching farther will be "Interesting"..End of the month I get to try those 1000 yard steel targets at Ridgeway in PA...Also,you mentioned the 6mm with a modest case.a 6X45...In a 6mmbr I run the 88Gr Berger Flat Base..From a.1 in ten twist Hart Barrel..That setup is pretty good to 600 yards...that rifle/load will be staying at home...More later, mike

[square butte]

Mike - What twist rates does he have available for 25 cal ?

[unclemikeinct]

I only Questioned the barrel maker on the 3 rates of twist I knew could work...1 in ten, twelve & fourteen...For the 257 bore ...I see above I forgot to mention that long range 243 is a 1 in 9 twist..Mike

[square butte]

Thanks for the reply Mike - If I can figure out how to contact him I will give him a call

[unclemikeinct]

Dan is at Classic Barrel & gunworks Prescott AZ.928- 772- 4060.. He was referred to me by another respected Barrel rebore guy here, JES in Oregon...jes is the big bore specialist...mike

[Nrut]

NRUT...Thank You, I'm going to send that rifle right out to Dan Pedersen in AZ..He is running 4 months out.He said he has the perfect throat reamer for that cast bullet & up to 90 grains jacketed won't be an issue..So there will be no before & after photo's...Just the After pic's w the bullets...Can you tell me more about your 6x45 to run the 105 AMAX...??? I run that bullet in a standard 243 Win. out to 800 yds..I have been told reaching farther will be "Interesting"..End of the month I get to try those 1000 yard steel targets at Ridgeway in PA...Also,you mentioned the 6mm with a modest case.a 6X45...In a 6mmbr I run the 88Gr Berger Flat Base..From a.1 in ten twist Hart Barrel..That setup is pretty good to 600 yards...that rifle/load will be staying at home...More later, mike

I initially wanted a light wt. 6 BR repeater that would feed out of the box mag. (not detachable mag.)..
But after reading peoples trials and tribulations with Wyatts 6 BR box I decided against the 6 BR..
Decided to go with the 6X45 because I have plenty of brass, and the Hornady 105 Amax and BTHP match are relatively cheaper than other high BC bullets in Canada..
The rifle will be used during the off season mostly as a fun rifle with a bit more thump than the 1:8 twist .223 (Ruger Amer. compact) that I am currently using..
Might even try it as a coyote calling rifle using the 58gr. Vmax..

The only mods I should have to make on the rifle is to remove the mag. spacer and replace it with a thinner one to give me about 2.5"+ box length for a OAL 2.45" loaded round..
May have to shorten the bolt stop a bit also..

The barrel will dupe the M7 factory barrel both in length and dia. and have a 1:8 twist..
Probably a Benchmark as they are fairly available up here..
Also will have the firing pin bushed as I want to step on it..
I read where people are getting 2525fps with the Hornady using H335 in 18" barrels..
With a Wildcat stock from Alberta and a Leupy 2-7 or 6X36 it should weight in around 6.4 pounds or less like my factory M7 .260 does with a 2.5-8X36 does using the same Wildcat stock..
But it will be awhile before I start this project as I busted the crankcase on my 250cc Dual Sport that I use as a trail bike on old logging roads and game trails..
Looks like 2 grand + to replace the crankcase as per est. from the local repair shop..


You should able to easily pound steel at 1000 with your .243 and 105/107 gr bullets..
On 6mmBr.com they say the 6mmBr and Dasher are highly competive in the 1000yd game..
Good luck with your lil' CZ 25-45 Sharps..

Always wanted a 25/222 Copperhead since I first saw an article on one in Rifle or Handloader years ago..


TOUM
(the other uncle Mike as per my nephews and nieces)

[unclemikeinct]

Good luck to you on your projects Nrut, I saw the CZ527Rifle today,dark wood nice figure, good trigger, handles like a dream...It will be shipped to the Barrel rebore guy ASAP..I think I read the same article about the 25 Copperhead...It is that.257 65Gr cast Bullet that lights me up..I can't wait to start plinking w that under 6Lb rifle using ammo I really make myself...Thanks to All Here...uncle mike in Ct

[dk17hmr]

I have a 25-223 built on a savage action with a 23.5" lilja 1:10 twist. Zero interest in shooting cast bullets with it. I have killed antelope with it to just shy of 250 yards and drawn blood on pdogs over 950, with confirmed kills in the 750 yard range. 85s at 3100 & 110s at 2700. It's a great little round. 6x45 is better for bullet selection but my 25-223 seems to blow up pdogs better than any of my 6x45s or 6tcu ever did.

25-45 sharps was announced maybe a year or two after I had my rifle built. It's basically the same thing with a shorter throat to be used in ARs.

Do a Google search of "dk17hmr 25-223" and a bunch of my stuff will pop up.

[unclemikeinct]

Wow, those links R A real eye opener...I had no idea this cartridge could be that potent..versatile..I can't wait to start playing around with mine...Thank You, Mike

[35remington]

The short neck of the 223 case means most if not nearly all 25 caliber cast bullets will have some to considerable length of full caliber bearing surface protruding inside the case, which is often considered "not good." I'd rather have Wooter's 25 Copperhead (25/222).

[Harter66]

25-45 is for 25 cal in the 45 mm 223 case . For those interested.
It achieves it super balistics through high pressure loadings . As much as I want 1 I just can't bring myself to spend what Sharps wants for a bbl and dies...... maybe at tax time......

[unclemikeinct]

Morning Gents..First post..I ordered a CZ527 carbine in .223 to convert to a .257/223 project ...I'm wanting to have a gunsmith just rebore the barrel to 257 Dia. & leave the chamber as is..I want this carbine to shoot the Lyman 65 Gr gas checked cast bullet & up to say 90 Gr Jacketed stuff...The old 25-20 used a 1-14 twist..My old 257 Roberts shot this bullet pretty well using a one in ten twist rate..My plan is to split the Diff on the conversion..1 in 12...not sure of the number pattern lands grooves..Any thoughts you would like to add to this project that can help me avoid pitfalls in the design would be appreciated...Mike

I'm reviving this old thread..25/223 project came back from the "GUNSMITH" last week,I'm underwhelmed by the "work", it took a year & close to 500 bucks with all the shipping fees. After two messages left to his land line phone...I had to send him a letter requesting a refund...I'll detail all the headaches here if he fails to respond to my request...UnclemikeinCT

[dverna]

I'm reviving this old thread..25/223 project came back from the "GUNSMITH" last week,I'm underwhelmed by the "work", it took a year & close to 500 bucks with all the shipping fees. After two messages left to his land line phone...I had to send him a letter requesting a refund...I'll detail all the headaches here if he fails to respond to my request...UnclemikeinCT

Sorry to hear of your troubles. It is disappointing to see this kind of stuff happen. High costs and poor workmanship with little or no recourse but to give a poor report on the firm/man doing the work. But at least it gives others a heads up, so thank you for doing that.

I hope the rifle works out for you.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The 243/222 was reasonably popular in Australia years ago and was known as the 6mm Myra, after the gunshop in the outback town of Broken Hill that specialised in them. I have always fancied one or a 25 version.

I have a new Marlin X7 in 222Rem that I cleaned before firing, but the patches kept coming out dirty no matter how many times I cleaned it. I persisted for a month or so, but they still come out dirty. I don't know what is wrong with it, but I am reluctant to fire it. I don't think it has ever been fired, the bolt face is black, shiny and unmarked. I'm tempted to rebarrel to a 25/222, but the thought of spending $AU500 - $AU 600 for a new barrel (That's about as cheap as it gets in Australia and no one does reboring) on a rifle that cost me $AU400 doesn't really make sense. Maybe when my eyes are too sad to shoot my 1908 vintage 25/20 Winchester 1892, it might make more sense.

Good luck with your CZ.