Mauser 1871 bullets

[Gobeyond]

I don't see the 11.15 Mauser listed on their web site. If this is it:

https://www.petersoncartridge.com/ma...rifle-casings/

Thanks for the link but I didn’t see it either…. Is Petersen the same as Remington brass. I think it’s Remington peters.

[uscra112]

No. not the same at all.

[sharps4590]

Pal, I don’t think a .450 bullet will fit in case. But I’m gonna try too. Then I’m set up to paper patch to .443. And want to get a few bullets in the .448 range. Three solid ways to attack this. All of them with some success. I hope I can have accomplishment here. You must have had some kind of smarts to find a duplex load. What kind of data points to that? Never seen it coming.
My project looks pretty straight forward and all within my knowledge. But to break out of that box would be unbelievable. Thanks to you and uscra112 for lifting me up here. Thanks.

welllll....I don't know if it will work but, as the groove diameter is .457, my thought was to run a 45-70 expander and mouth expander into the neck. The bullet will then fit the neck. Question is, will the case now fit the chamber. Bullet mold hasn't arrived yet and I've been a bit busy with Joyce.

As far as the duplex load, Grahame Wright covers them quite extensively in his book, "Shooting the British Double Rifle." Given the pressure tests he had run at Kynoch and Birmingham Proof house he/they concluded a 10% duplex load was within the original proof pressure. What they found.....amazing(?) and, I did too, was that often a duplex load producing the same velocity as the original BP loads developed LESS pressure than the originals.

[Gobeyond]

welllll....I don't know if it will work but, as the groove diameter is .457, my thought was to run a 45-70 expander and mouth expander into the neck. The bullet will then fit the neck. Question is, will the case now fit the chamber. Bullet mold hasn't arrived yet and I've been a bit busy with Joyce.

As far as the duplex load, Grahame Wright covers them quite extensively in his book, "Shooting the British Double Rifle." Given the pressure tests he had run at Kynoch and Birmingham Proof house he/they concluded a 10% duplex load was within the original proof pressure. What they found.....amazing(?) and, I did too, was that often a duplex load producing the same velocity as the original BP loads developed LESS pressure than the originals.

That’s some kind of science. Mixing powders has always been a strict safety precaution. But that is unbelievable. I mean I believe you but the irony.

[sharps4590]

Duplexing BP and smokeless goes back to the days when smokeless powder was in its infancy. Harry Pope did it as did a pile of the old Schuetzen shooters in the US. I've never read of any of the German Schuetzen shooters doing it. They might have, I just never read about it. In some matches in Canada shooting BPC's they allowed up to 30% smokeless in a duplex load. I never researched it but I can only assume those loads were used in modern, replica rifles. I always tried to stay below 10% and, so far, the few times I've resorted to duplex loads I've not had to exceed about 8%. It definitely makes for a clean burning BP load, even at that light dose.

[uscra112]

Harry Pope even invented a special powder measure with a hidden reservoir that would secretly drop a small charge of smokeless before dropping the main charge of black. Sneaky, but not illegal in the Schuetzen game at the time.

The most dangerous duplex loading I ever heard of was done by Elmer Keith and a couple of his pals, using two different smokeless powders.

In neither case were the powders mixed. They were always loaded in layers.

[Gobeyond]

Duplexing BP and smokeless goes back to the days when smokeless powder was in its infancy. Harry Pope did it as did a pile of the old Schuetzen shooters in the US. I've never read of any of the German Schuetzen shooters doing it. They might have, I just never read about it. In some matches in Canada shooting BPC's they allowed up to 30% smokeless in a duplex load. I never researched it but I can only assume those loads were used in modern, replica rifles. I always tried to stay below 10% and, so far, the few times I've resorted to duplex loads I've not had to exceed about 8%. It definitely makes for a clean burning BP load, even at that light dose.

What are you going to shoot now without the 4759 that we can no longer buy.

[Gobeyond]

Harry Pope even invented a special powder measure with a hidden reservoir that would secretly drop a small charge of smokeless before dropping the main charge of black. Sneaky, but not illegal in the Schuetzen game at the time.

The most dangerous duplex loading I ever heard of was done by Elmer Keith and a couple of his pals, using two different smokeless powders.

In neither case were the powders mixed. They were always loaded in layers.

What was Keith trying to invent with that load? Ultra mags

[sharps4590]

I have enough SR-4759 to last what time the good Lord allows me and if not, 2400 and some other powders can be used. I bought every bottle I came across when they announced it being discontinued....which wasn't many but, I do have enough....I think....lol!

IIRC, Keith and whoever was working with him...I want to remember there was him and someone else....were attempting to have the charge have two gears....for lack of a better description. The faster powder got the bullet going then the slower powder kicked in and gave it a boost. I know that isn't how Elmer explained it but that was the gist of what I got from it....and I might be as goofy as a pet raccoon too.

[Eddie1971]

Video of a guy with an 1871 and some comments on how he loads it. Looks like he used the Lyman .446 mold for 11mm Mauser.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueCxy3hHb1I&t=151s

[Gobeyond]

Video of a guy with an 1871 and some comments on how he loads it. Looks like he used the Lyman .446 mold for 11mm Mauser.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueCxy3hHb1I&t=151s

Thanks for the video, I’ve seen it before. Didn’t get his comments though. Eric from Little House is a very accurate shooter with those old guns and he always dress the part. Do you have an 1871 Mauser @Eddie1971 ? I think the lead .446 is the easiest way to go but I’m hoping that .448 lead will work. Everything is coming in slowly then we’ll put it all together.

I’m impressed by where your from. How’s it going over there. Are you allowed to be a sports shooter?
Best of luck and Gods blessings.

[sharps4590]

I can't speak to the Mausers but, my hairbrained idea with w .457 bullet didn't work, no matter what I tried. Sooo...5 gr.s of SR-4759 under 68 grs. of Old Eynsford, .020 card wad and seat the Lyman bullet that I lubed in a .452 die, it does not touch the sides, then went out to my bench and proceeded to shoot 2 inch and sub 2 inch groups, offhand, sitting at my bench, open sights, at 60 yards. Best was 1 7/8 in for a 4 shot composite group. I quit. I don't believe the rifle or me can do any better....regardless the load. If it's permitted, here's a link to the site I frequent most where I posted the write up and targets.

https://www.thefirearmsforum.com/thr.../#post-2384855

[Gobeyond]

I can't speak to the Mausers but, my hairbrained idea with w .457 bullet didn't work, no matter what I tried. Sooo...5 gr.s of SR-4759 under 68 grs. of Old Eynsford, .020 card wad and seat the Lyman bullet that I lubed in a .452 die, it does not touch the sides, then went out to my bench and proceeded to shoot 2 inch and sub 2 inch groups, offhand, sitting at my bench, open sights, at 60 yards. Best was 1 7/8 in for a 4 shot composite group. I quit. I don't believe the rifle or me can do any better....regardless the load. If it's permitted, here's a link to the site I frequent most where I posted the write up and targets.

https://www.thefirearmsforum.com/thr.../#post-2384855

So that was with a Lyman .446bullet. Pretty amazing. Someone else commented about .446 in a 1871. It might just work because pressure is so low. What would you say is your pressure sharps with your duplex load? I’ve yet to get my brass.
sigh. Having trouble getting the 457 mold, so it won’t work, eh? It sounds like your bullet maybe obturate enough. My .448 maybe enough in my gun. What was the biggest bullet you got in the case Vic that fit your chamber? What fun you must be having on your place, sounds like some set up. Well congrats on your success you got a winner there.

[sharps4590]

Well, .457 won't work in my rifle. I'll have to measure my Lyman bullet again....I CANNOT remember spit anymore!!!! I think it's .450. If running it through a .452 die doesn't touch the bullet, it's obviously smaller.

I can't imagine my loads having any higher pressure than what factory would be. All the usual pressure signs indicate fairly mild, even with the great big black powder firing pins. The reason for the duplex load is a velocity issue. Straight BP usually will not generate enough velocity for the barrels to regulate. There's ways to juggle velocity and bullet weight and hopefully one will work. However, I've never been able to get a double to regulate with a straight BP load. Heavier/lighter bullets have different lengths so twist comes into play, bullet shape CAN matter...because of length/weight. You just keep dinkin' with it until you find the right combination. You can make some educated calculations but sometimes even they leave you scratching your head.

Single barrel rifles then become passe' they're so easy.....lol!

Edit: Ok, I mic'ed the bullet, .447-.4475 out of 25-1 alloy. I checked the BHN with my Saeco tester and it came out to 8 BHN. ARRGGHHH!!! I'll probably remember that for 15 minutes..

[Gobeyond]

Well, .457 won't work in my rifle. I'll have to measure my Lyman bullet again....I CANNOT remember spit anymore!!!! I think it's .450. If running it through a .452 die doesn't touch the bullet, it's obviously smaller.

I can't imagine my loads having any higher pressure than what factory would be. All the usual pressure signs indicate fairly mild, even with the great big black powder firing pins. The reason for the duplex load is a velocity issue. Straight BP usually will not generate enough velocity for the barrels to regulate. There's ways to juggle velocity and bullet weight and hopefully one will work. However, I've never been able to get a double to regulate with a straight BP load. Heavier/lighter bullets have different lengths so twist comes into play, bullet shape CAN matter...because of length/weight. You just keep dinkin' with it until you find the right combination. You can make some educated calculations but sometimes even they leave you scratching your head.

Single barrel rifles then become passe' they're so easy.....lol!

Edit: Ok, I mic'ed the bullet, .447-.4475 out of 25-1 alloy. I checked the BHN with my Saeco tester and it came out to 8 BHN. ARRGGHHH!!! I'll probably remember that for 15 minutes..

Ha-ha. Well thanks sharps4590

[Gunor]

Lyman 450299 - hollowbased.

Just realized I had this mold…pure lead comes out at .450

Lightweight..

Attachment 296744

[Gobeyond]

Lyman 450299 - hollowbased.

Just realized I had this mold…pure lead comes out at .450

Lightweight..

Attachment 296744

Do those fall out at 299gr ? A bit light. Have you shot them…in what? Sure look good. Is the mold for sale?

[Gunor]

Do those fall out at 299gr ? A bit light. Have you shot them…in what? Sure look good. Is the mold for sale?

Pretty light bullet. Sorry not for sale..I’ll have to try it out. Might have to size it down a little.

[Gobeyond]

Does a blow tube help when you are using bps in a 43 Mauser. My first groups were best. It could have been fouling that deteriorated my accuracy. My bullets should have been obturating. 9 bhn Maybe 1500 FPS. A load of 77grs of t-7.
Softer maybe? Less powder?

[Eddie1971]

Thanks for the video, I’ve seen it before. Didn’t get his comments though. Eric from Little House is a very accurate shooter with those old guns and he always dress the part. Do you have an 1871 Mauser @Eddie1971 ? I think the lead .446 is the easiest way to go but I’m hoping that .448 lead will work. Everything is coming in slowly then we’ll put it all together.

I’m impressed by where your from. How’s it going over there. Are you allowed to be a sports shooter?
Best of luck and Gods blessings.

I really don't live in East Germany, but the equivalent of it today - an American blue state...