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Thread: 2.5" 12ga VS 2.75" 20ga

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Northern Michigan
    Charlie b,

    I was at the Ohio State Shoot in 2009 when Leo Harrison shot 1196x1200. That was a mix of Singles, Handicap, and Doubles targets. He missed 4 birds out of 1200. I doubt that record will ever be broken.

    I had the opportunity to take a group lesson with Leo and about a year later a semi-private lesson. He is, IMO, the best trap shooter who has ever lived. He won a lot of money shooting competitively, made the All American team 40 times and was Captain 12 times. Back when I knew him, he held the world record of 992 Singles out of 1000.

    He was also one of the most humble and kindest souls one could hope to meet. He died at 56 YO. I still have a hat signed by him. I feel honored to have spent some time with him and learned more than just trap shooting from him. He was a class act in every way.

    When someone posts stuff like ulav8r did I know better. Everyone misses and a lot more than they think. If they didn't, they could make a good living shooting trap, skeet and/or sporting clays and giving lessons.

    One last story about Leo. I was having a hell of a time shooting Doubles but averaging over 98 in Singles. So I invested $600 in a semi-private lesson with him. The first 50 birds I may have hit in the low 40's. He watched, coached and got me thorough it. At the end of the course there was another 50 bird "event". He was behind me when I missed the 50th bird for a 49. (Having the best shooter in the world standing behind you gets a bit of pucker going.) I was ecstatic!! I had smoked almost all of them. Leo ripped off his hat, threw it on the ground and swore..."DAMN IT!" I wish I had kept the hat...LOL

    There is a lot of BS in the shooting world and on the internet. Most people never get the chance to watch the truly great shooters, never mind spend time with them or train under them. People think they can buy a 6.5 CreedLess and hit targets at 1000 yards like the "experts" or shoot 1/2" groups with cast bullets out of hunting rifles.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Las Cruces, NM
    I agree about the BS, but, there are folks who are very good who will never compete. I know several hunters who have never missed a shot. Doesn't mean they are excellent shots, they just know how to pick their shots and not shoot when they aren't sure of a hit. One guy I knew loved the stalk. He hunted with round ball muzzle loaders and rarely took a shot over 25yd.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    NC Arkansas
    Might have been bs on his part but he has not had that gun very long and has only a limited amount of time to use it. He is a forest service firefighter stationed in Montana, fire season was a month and a half longer last year and they often had 2 or 3 active fires in their district much of the time.
    Spell check doesn't work in Chrome, so if something is spelled wrong, it's just a typo that I missed.

  4. #24
    Boolit Grand Master
    Mk42gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Butler, MO
    Guys, I may have started the can't miss bragging in this thread with my Model 37, but the truth is I have only shot seven or eight critters with it. There is absolutely no way I am claiming to be good enough to go multiple hundreds of rounds without missing.

    Its just a good serviceable gun that sort of fits me well, and it is mainly used for varmint eradication around the farm.

    I do need to replace the cracked add on Belknap recoil pad. When I do, I'll probably go ahead and cut the stock so it is correct. And then I'll start making up for the misses I should have had with it already.


  5. #25
    Boolit Grand Master
    rintinglen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Orange, VA NOW
    Don't sweat it fellows, I miss enough to make up for all the ones you guys hit.

    I am a fair rifle shot and a pretty good revolver shooter, but I stink as a shotgunner.
    _________________________________________________It's not that I can't spell: it is that I can't type.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    State of Denial

    I personally would stick with 2 3/4" 12 gauge for economy, and buy ammo according to the purpose.

    The thing that may help improve your understanding: The length of a shotgun shell is as much or more about mechanical cycling in repeating guns than it is about how big a payload of powder and shot it can carry. As such, there is a great deal of empty space inside a 2 3/4" dove load that is taken up with wadding that is mainly there just to fill the empty volume of the shell. As the rounds get more aggressive in terms of payload, velocity, or both, the wad stack shrinks as the amount of lead and nitrocellulose increases.

    You can effectively turn a 12 gauge into a 20 or even a 28 by fiddling with those combinations. The commercial result of that is your 3/4 to 1-ounce "Featherlight" trap loads.

    The main advantage to the smaller gauges is the lighter weight guns, but if reduced recoil is the main objective, that can be a double-edged sword.

    Is the mightiness of the pen still relevant after we roll the writing paper into cartridges for a Sharps?

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check