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Thread: Bullet popping out during crimping step

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub
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    Bullet popping out during crimping step

    Hi,
    I've scored some of Starline's Cowboy Special brass. They are used for shorter 45 Colt cartridges. They have the length of 45 ACP, but can be loaded into 45 Colt revolvers, although they won't work in a lever gun. The idea is that a smaller case allows for more of the case to be filled because the 45 Colt was made for black powder.

    To do a crimp, the main suggestion is to use a 45 ACP crimp die (using Lee Factory Crimp) because the seating die is just too long to put a crimp on these shorter cases.

    However, when I do that, the bullet pops out of the case to above the lube grove! I am pretty sure that it happens on the upstroke, but I'm not sure. I've alternated out both Lee and RCBS dies. I've tried light to very big crimps.

    If I take this now-partially-seated cartridge, then run it back through the seating and crimping process, I get an okay cartridge. However, I am finding rings of shaved lead when I re-seat it.

    Any ideas?
    Bulk brass for sale at http://sleepingdogammo.com

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Baltimoreed's Avatar
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    How much powder are you trying to put into the case? Seriously you might need to clean out your seating die, could be full of lead buildup. Load them just like 45acp. Never had issues with bullets popping out.
    Last edited by Baltimoreed; 01-15-2022 at 08:18 PM.

  3. #3
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    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
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    I've had crimps shave Lead when I try to seat & crimp in one stroke.

    I now seat and crimp separately.
    Last edited by Winger Ed.; 01-15-2022 at 11:11 PM.
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  4. #4
    Boolit Bub
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    I only have 5 grains of W231, so lots of spare room. I'll pull the seating die and see if there is a lot of lead.
    Bulk brass for sale at http://sleepingdogammo.com

  5. #5
    Boolit Master derek45's Avatar
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    might be creating a vacuum, like a syringe

    I had a LEE 357 mag seater than would do that.

    I drilled a tiny vent hole in the side to cure it.
    .


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  6. #6
    Boolit Master Baltimoreed's Avatar
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    That should be a good load. I’ve always seated and crimped in one stroke, just a matter of coordinating the two actions to happen at about the same time at the end of the ram stroke. Adjust the seating die with the locking ring to the required crimp and then adjust the bullet seater to push the bullet into the case to the crimp groove when the case engages the dies crimp ring. Severe lead buildup will cause the lead bullet to stick in the seater die and it could get pulled back out of the case as the crimp would be poor but theres no way a bullet would ‘pop’ out of a case.
    Last edited by Baltimoreed; 01-15-2022 at 08:40 PM.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Do you seat the boolit in one step and then use the Lee FCD , to crimp , in a second separate step ?
    Gary
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  8. #8
    Boolit Master



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    Better to use a roll crimp with a 45 AR die. Or cut/grind down a 45 Colt die.

  9. #9
    Boolit Bub
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    I am using two steps.
    Seating has been done with both the RCBS 45 Colt and 45 ACP die -- they seem to perform the same.
    Crimping has been done with the Lee 45 ACP factory, roll crimp.

    I feel like the vacuum might be the issue.

    I was thinking of borrowing the spacer in the 45 ACP factory and adding it to the 45 Colt die.
    I am not too excited about grinding down my 45 Colt die.
    Bulk brass for sale at http://sleepingdogammo.com

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Springfield View Post
    Better to use a roll crimp with a 45 AR die. Or cut/grind down a 45 Colt die.
    +1

    The Lee 45 ACP die probably applies a taper crimp. A call to Lee would confirm. Also, are you contacting the carbide ring in the FCD? If so, you are squeezing down the brass and boolit, brass has more spring back than the lead, so when the brass springs back more than the lead, you lose case tension and the boolit, seated in a small case (lots of air compression) pops out. If you are committed to the 45 CB special, I’d really consider grinding down a 45 colt die to where it will apply a roll crimp upon full seating of the boolit. This is what I did with a Lee 44 Mag/special die for 44 Russian. I didn’t have boolit ejection problems with the 44 Russian, but experienced it with heavy boolit 9mm and 38 short colt loads when trying to crimp with the FCD.
    Last edited by Silvercreek Farmer; 01-15-2022 at 09:58 PM.

  11. #11
    Boolit Bub
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    I think I figured it out.

    I used the internal band from the 45 ACP die and ADDED it to the internal band for the 45 Colt. The Colt band was at the bottom touching the bullet/case while the 45 ACP band caused the crimp to start sooner than for a standard 45 Colt.

    Now, it is not popping out.
    Thanks for the help
    Bulk brass for sale at http://sleepingdogammo.com

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeping Dog View Post
    I am using two steps.
    Seating has been done with both the RCBS 45 Colt and 45 ACP die -- they seem to perform the same.
    Crimping has been done with the Lee 45 ACP factory, roll crimp.

    I feel like the vacuum might be the issue.

    I was thinking of borrowing the spacer in the 45 ACP factory and adding it to the 45 Colt die.
    I am not too excited about grinding down my 45 Colt die.
    That rascal must be pulling a good vacuum to suck the boolit out ...
    This one is a puzzler for sure . I've never experienced it but I've never used a Lee FCD either .
    Glad to see you got it figured out ... I had no idea there are Internal Bands in the die , learned something new !
    Gary
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  13. #13
    Boolit Master 1006's Avatar
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    I think it is the Lee Factory Crimp Die that causes the problem. The carbide ring at the base is is resizing the brass and causing the crimp to release—on the up stroke, or down stoke. Try a 45 ACP taper crimp. It should hold just fine at your recoil levels.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master 1006's Avatar
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    I have had the same issue with the LEE FCD in 9mm.

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master bedbugbilly's Avatar
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    I don't load a lot of them - and everyone does it their own way. I always set and then crimp in two different steps. While I like the Lee factory crimp dies for my .380, 9mm and 38/357 - I don't use one for the 45 Cowboy. I FL size them - expand - seat and then use an older Lyman 45 ACP taper crimp. Even with a .454 boolit, they load fine for me and a taper crimp works just fine to hold 'em in place. My revolver chambers are on the generaous side in my 45 Colts and they fit just fine without having to run them through the carbide ring to iron them out like is sometimes needed on other pistol cartridges. YMMV

    If you have a 45 ACP taper crimp die - try it on a few and see how it works for you.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    internal band ??

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeping Dog View Post
    I think I figured it out.

    I used the internal band from the 45 ACP die and ADDED it to the internal band for the 45 Colt. The Colt band was at the bottom touching the bullet/case while the 45 ACP band caused the crimp to start sooner than for a standard 45 Colt.

    Now, it is not popping out.
    Thanks for the help
    that's good to know
    I was going to suggest you knock out the carbide ring in that Lee FCD
    But if what you have going on is working there's no need to do that now.
    jmo,
    .
    Size/Prime a few cases when starting off with a progressive and put them aside. You can plug them back into the process when a bad/odd case screws up in the priming station and continue loading.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winger Ed. View Post
    I've had crimps shave Lead when I try to seat & crimp in one stroke.

    I now seat and crimp separately.
    +1 on this.
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  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeping Dog View Post
    I think I figured it out.

    I used the internal band from the 45 ACP die and ADDED it to the internal band for the 45 Colt. The Colt band was at the bottom touching the bullet/case while the 45 ACP band caused the crimp to start sooner than for a standard 45 Colt.

    Now, it is not popping out.
    Thanks for the help
    Can you explain internal band? Carbide ring?
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  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    I've had that happen with too much compression, insufficient neck tension, fouled seating plugs/dies. Some of my dies have tiny vent holes in the side, on the others I drilled a hole down through the center of the seating plug. At times I can watch excess lube bleeding out like a worm coming out of the ground.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check