Inline FabricationLee PrecisionADvertise hereTitan Reloading
RepackboxRotoMetals2

Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: My First PCP... Umarex Origin .22

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy chutesnreloads's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    415

    My First PCP... Umarex Origin .22

    Took a while to post this as I didn't want to start a thread on a new toy with no real world experience with it.
    Had the rifle about 6 weeks now so a lot of the new has worn off. Spent quite a bit of time deciding on my purchase
    and even if I wanted to go the PCP route. From all I've learned PCPs are powerful tools changing the air gun scene BUT.....

    PCPs are expensive. But since I'd decided to spend $600-800 on the next air rifle, that argument doesn't hold up so well.

    PCPs are high maintenance and require a lot of extra stuff to keep them shooting. I like the idea of the self contained air
    gun needing nothing more than a drop of oil and a tin of pellets. It occurred to me some of that thinking goes back a ways
    when I would spend days at a time out in the boonies essentially living out of a backpack. There was also the proverbial
    SHTF situation where using powder burners may be out of the question for one reason or another. I'm getting older now
    and while I may hunt more often than I used to, I also don't wander as far and generally hunt differently than I did when
    I was younger. Where I hunt does not require switching to air guns from powder burners and I don't see that changing before
    I get too old for that to matter any more. For me air guns have really been a use it in the back yard case. So why should
    all the accoutrements of the PCP intimidate me? I've spent enough time tinkering with my powder burners the high maintenance
    argument doesn't really fly either aside from just being lazy which I can be.

    For my use a PCP MUST hold air. At least enough for two reliably accurate shots. Why?. Because it will be used mostly to dispatch squirrels in the yard. A PCP that won't hold air for extended periods of time is near useless. I must be able to get a shot at a squirrel BEFORE he does much damage to pecan and peach trees. So far I've seen no air lost over a period of days.

    I'm tired of the crappy triggers on the lower cost springers. They work and have gotten the job done for a long while now. This
    is one of my best arguments for the new purchase. A higher end springer will have a nice trigger. For the cost, I expect a fairly decent trigger on a PCP.

    A hand pump will be needed to charge the new PCP at least for a while and seems to me having one at least as a back up should be on hand for all PCP owners. I worried that pumping would wear me out to the point I wouldn't want to use it. This is NOT
    the case. It's really not much work at all and though winded, the effort is no deterrent. It is recommended to pump in sessions of 50 strokes with a cooling period between sessions. I've found a "sweet spot" between 3100 psi and 1900 psi that allows better
    than 30 accurate shots. No need to pump it to the full 3600 psi and I don't let it get below 1900 or so psi. I've found two sessions
    at 35 strokes each gets me back for another 3 magazines shooting.

    So, after 6 weeks, what are my likes and dislikes?
    It is quiet! To the point that after firing the 1st shot I thought something was wrong with it. Wasn't expecting this.
    It is much less pellet picky than my other air rifles. Even better, so far its favorite pellet has been the Crosman Premiers
    found just about anywhere. That's just icing on the cake.
    The trigger is just fine the way it came. I know some folk are adjusting theirs but I see no need. Shooting little bitty groups is not at all hard even out to 50 yards. I've tried a couple 20+ grain pellets that really shine at 50 yards. AND IT SHOOTS SLUGS!
    Not sure how much I'll be using slugs. They cost more and in the yard are too much of a good thing.
    In fact the whole package may be a bit too powerful for my needs. My chronograph shows it shooting slightly higher than advertised velocities. The manual states that turning the adjustment screw changed velocities by 150-200 fps. This is not
    true. Truth is the adjustment screw can be turned 6 full turns and from full in to full out the velocities change 150-200 fps.
    For some reason I was expecting to turn it down to closer to my springer's velocities.
    I've not shot anywhere near enough squirrels yet for a real evaluation but so far I fear it too powerful for the yard. One was shot
    heart/lung area and at first couldn't believe I'd missed such a close shot. I saw the pellet strike the ground right at the bottom of the back fence and kick up a fair amount of dirt. After sitting there a few seconds apparently unhurt the squirrel ran 15-20
    feet up the tree before it showed any sign of distress. Then if fell over backward dead. This reminds me of experiences with higher powered guns. I remember an experience like this with a .223 shooting FMJ bullets. Literally saw daylight through the squirrel
    before he ran higher up in the tree to expire. Seen this plenty of times with the rimfires. Oh yes, head shots put them down straight away but sometimes the head shot isn't practical. Maybe finding a wadcutter or hollow point pellet it shoots well will change this some. I'd like to see someone make a heavier wadcutter just for this.
    Depending when I look at it, it looks weird or looks kinda cool. It also feels cheap mainly because it's so light but it does shoulder nicely. Those who want to carry one around the woods all day will like it I think although it may be a little long in the brush.
    The pistol grip has finger grooves molded in I'm not a big fan of. I've considered sanding them out but it really doesn't bother me
    that much.
    Still have a lot o learn with it especially its sensitivity to temperature changes. While chronographing, I left it sitting in the sun a little while. Not a hot day, maybe 80 degrees, I saw higher velocities and much more velocity variation. Sat it in the shade a bit
    and that went away. Could be a problem here especially in summer. My next chrony session a week later it was cooler, 35 degrees. At first the chrony wouldn't read I think because I started early, first light. But at 50 yards it was shooting considerably lower than it had the week before. When the chrony finally started reading it showed 200 fps slower than the week before.
    By this time it was ready for a fill and when I got back to shooting the sun was well up and the chrony was reading more in line with the previous week. Was this not enough light for good reads and what about it hitting lower?
    Since then I've been seeing my zero change, almost always lower, after it has been sitting a few days. Is this an issue with the rifle or maybe mounts and scope. Too soon to tell but the groups are still nice and small.

    I'll post more as I learn the gun

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master


    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    6,985
    Good report sir.

    I found groups got even better after getting a few hundred pellets through the barrel. Great to hear you are getting good accuracy from the get go!
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy chutesnreloads's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    415
    A few more observations. Think the wandering zero is accounted for. Was not especially pleased with the scope on it other than its high
    magnification which helps shooting tiny groups. With scope and mounts off, notices the rail has 4 tiny allen screws bolting it on.
    Some reason I'd thought it was all ne piece. Yes, the screws were not snug. Not loose but not snug either. Amazing the groups it was
    shooting despite this. What I'd noticed was a change in zero after it had sat a day or more. Also noted a 1st round flyer several times right
    after a fill. Think this is now sorted out.
    Last outing wind was fairly calm so just for grins decided to try it at 100 yards. Set up a soda can and my nephew had left a few plastic
    soldiers he shoots at. Figured I couldn't see them that far but set them around the can anyway. Back at the bench used the bold part of the reticle as a post and guessed at about one soda can hold over. Didn't account for the light breeze just wanting to see where the pellet hit
    to adjust aim. As much luck as skill, DING the can falls over. I think no way, send another pellet down a DING. After a ten shot magazine
    6 had connected with 4 near misses. They were very hard to see but I could pick out a couple of the soldiers. Took two magazines but
    managed to connect with one. Hitting the can was too easy and figure if I wanted to adjust the scope so wasn't guessing at hold over
    could probably hit it near every shot.
    I've not messed with the slugs any more other than shooting the few. Our member Racing was correct about them fouling the bore.
    In my limited testing about ten shots you could see accuracy diminish. That is one magazine and at the 10th shot still accurate enough
    for most hunting. Still cleaning the bore every ten shots isn't my idea of fun.
    Another thing noted I think anyone considering buying one these rifles should know. The manual states the air reservoir is only good
    for 10 years and should be sent in for replacement at that time. I'd sure liked to have known that BEFORE my purchase. In this ever
    changing world who knows what will be available as replacements 10 years from now. Of course there could be an easier solution
    by then too.

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master


    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    6,985
    Any measured groups at 50 yards with pellets?

    One thing to try on the slugs leading would be a light coat of Ballistol or maybe even BLL. I used Ballistol on pellets just before the weather got nasty and it seemed to improve accuracy. But I need to put about 20 more groups on paper before I can say definitively. I am afflicted with enough knowledge about statistics to know a few groups may not tell the full story.

    That sucks about the reservoir having to be replaced every 10 years. I have never heard of that on other PCP's. I know that HPA tanks need to be recertified every 5 years and replaced every 15 years and that was bad enough. Hope it is something you can do at home and the part is affordable. I think it may just be CYA stuff their lawyers put out.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy chutesnreloads's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    415
    Only time will tell how long any of it will last.
    You're right about just a couple groups not telling the whole tale. I've only been out to the farm with it where I can shoot at longer distances
    3 times now. No, I've not bothered measuring groups however... working at a print shop has advantages. I design and print my own targets.
    Many of these start with a background of half inch grid squares. These make it easy to see how close to half inch my groups are at glance.
    One of my favorites for air guns is the grid with 5 3/8" Dots for bulls. Not having the targets in hand I can only go from memory but of the
    pellets it shoots well I'm getting between 1/2" to just over an inch at 50 yards. Again this is only 3 outings and all 3 have been on unusually calm days. In the back yard at 25 yards where I've been able to shoot a lot more often I'd estimate an average of around half inch. I get some much smaller than that but not consistently. They're bigger at home because I'm not using a bench and sand bags. I believe it more useful to shoot from "field shooting positions" to see what can be expected using it for the intended purpose. I do rest against a post, door frame, etc.
    but it's not as sturdy as resting my body against a bench snugged into sand bags

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master


    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    6,985
    Your accuracy appears to be about the same as I am getting with the DAR...about the same price too. I am happy with that level of performance for a gun that is not very expensive.

    BTW I was going to try slugs until I saw the price....Holy Moley!!. $20/300. I am getting decent accuracy with Crosman pellets that I got for less than $6.50/500, so never went down that rabbit hole. I have not hunted with mine yet so maybe the cheapo pellets will not do well. But at $20/300 I would revert to using .22 LR for the 30-50 shots a year needed for pests like squirrels and chipmunks.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy chutesnreloads's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    415
    That's kind of where I'm at too. The pellets are perfectly fine for for I got it for. If I had to hunt some place where a powder burner
    was out or say it's shotgun archery or air gun only..... I may want to use the slugs for the flatter trajectory but the two 20+
    grain pellets aren't too shabby in that department either. Only have one tin of each so saving them for a time of need. Can't find any to
    replace them now. H&N does make a pellet that looks like the Kodiak at the same weight. I may try some if I find them in stock.

  8. #8
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    57
    Any one shooting the umarex air bow I bought everything 22 25 caliber rifles air tank compressor Air Bow I should say I bought everything My son and I were going to set up a shooting range in the yard well well before we got a chance to shoot he passed away after that I had no urge to shoot any of it so it just sits

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master


    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    6,985
    Quote Originally Posted by ourway77 View Post
    Any one shooting the umarex air bow I bought everything 22 25 caliber rifles air tank compressor Air Bow I should say I bought everything My son and I were going to set up a shooting range in the yard well well before we got a chance to shoot he passed away after that I had no urge to shoot any of it so it just sits
    Sorry for your loss.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy chutesnreloads's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    415
    Have put off posting about this until I was sure. This will be my first real gripe about the Origin.
    Seems near every time I take it to shoot after it has sit for a day or three, the zero has moved.
    At first I assumed a scope/mount problem. After a re-mount didn't change anything I replaced
    scope and mounts with a tried and true set. No difference. Still shoots really nice groups and the
    zero seems to hold while shooting. The change comes after it has sit idle more than a day. Mostly
    a vertical change but a little left or right also. It is kept in an out of the way place where it won't
    be jarred and I've been handling it gingerly just in case the scope was getting jarred while handling.
    I'll next try storing it horizontally with the stock taking all the weight. Not sure what else to try.
    Rather inconvenient to have it hitting different than it was when put away.
    Fortunately my springer is shooting better than ever with the new trigger mod and it holds zero.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy chutesnreloads's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    415
    After asking over on the GTA forum, was advised to check the screws holding the barrel in place. Had to remove scope rail
    to get to them. Sure enough one was snug and the other two less than tight. It seemed better but was still getting some
    vertical POI changes. Thinking having the rifle leaning against the barrel was somehow enough to cause it, started keeping
    it hanging on a gun rack that rests only against the stock. Third time out this morning with zero POI shift. Think that solves it
    but I'll be leary of using it anywhere the barrel may get bumped. All things considered, I find it amazing it shoots such good
    groups.

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master


    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    6,985
    Quote Originally Posted by chutesnreloads View Post
    After asking over on the GTA forum, was advised to check the screws holding the barrel in place. Had to remove scope rail
    to get to them. Sure enough one was snug and the other two less than tight. It seemed better but was still getting some
    vertical POI changes. Thinking having the rifle leaning against the barrel was somehow enough to cause it, started keeping
    it hanging on a gun rack that rests only against the stock. Third time out this morning with zero POI shift. Think that solves it
    but I'll be leary of using it anywhere the barrel may get bumped. All things considered, I find it amazing it shoots such good
    groups.
    That is interesting. Too cold for me to play but will need to check my guns outwhen spring arrives. Good to hear you are pleased with the gun.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    190
    Glad to hear youre enjoying your PCP Sir.
    Yes.
    Most of us "not 22yrs old" anymore have a past where springers that about all looked the same were the norm.
    Dont get me wrong, but the springers today are on another level too IMO. Its just not the PCPs that are.

    PCPs though.
    Yes. I too was amazed as i first got in touch with them. What drew me in was their inherent capacity of accuracy, mind you the first one i got in touch with was a high end semi early FX gun.
    Due that a while later the first one i got myself was the 25cal FX Impact i own to this day. (A very very modified MkI.)

    Enough rambling though and to the point of this my post.

    Were i to advice someone first up a caliber today, knowing what i know these days, for a first PCP id say go 25. Yes. By any measure the 22 has been the go-to for decades upon decades but things do evolve and things do change.
    A 25 CAN these days be made powerful enough to go after small game with confidence and if REALLY leaned upon and into be had to reach close to 200J.. Bullet offerings are about as plentyful as 22s, just more dedicated IMO.
    The 22s are catching up though, much thanx to the ZA boys where 22s is all they got to play with. 25s on the other hand these days range from the teens in weight all the way up to and into the high 60s. Thats quite a span, and for instance a regular souped up whatever 25 using 41grain ZAN slugs at say 1080... were talking 140 Joules( 106 footpounds) here. That a rather far cry from a 177 springer for garden use at say 10m/yards back in the -70s..

    Second one then?
    Say that you DID pick a 25 up and have spent like 6 months with it?
    For a second gun id go 35 and up. A 45 or 50 even need be. Reason? Welp, together with that first 25... between the two of them theyd sure cover loads of bases.

    Let it be known though, at least where were at today...
    Most of them are more platforms to work on than ready to use guns. CAN a PCP just be bought/picked up at a reasonable rate and used for leasure..whatever?
    Certainly.
    However.
    Knowing how to throw the stones as far as PCP will increase their performance a LOT - its no joking matter. Yes. In this case, or to this day more like it, being a DIY or tinkerer or whatever actually helps. Lots. Hotrods, in the true meaning of the word.

    Meanwhile PCPs as a field of knowledge and expertise changes at a pace its insane these days. What is "new & improved" today is old news like 2 months from now. Just take a look at the use of slugs, and their applications.

    Full auto ones.. semis.. you name it. Ones operated by electronics.. and what not. Balanced valve ones yadda yadda yadda ad infinitum.

    But. All that said and done the basic principles remains why a good bolt action or, IMO even better, sidelever sure stands the rigors of time.
    That said.

    For those giving thought to taking the plunge a few pointers if i may...
    Caliber? Look above
    What rifle? My take (as in an OPINION (not fact)) is that a sidelever action makes it way easier for ALL to use the gun, even in souped up form (or especially then actually).

    In turn, weight. There is absolutely ZERO reasons for a PCP to carry the weight of a powder burner. Yes. I DO own a Hatsan BT-65 Elit of approx 5,5kg and.. ive put it up for sale.
    Wonderful rifle, shoots tight and hard. Lights out at anything within 100 meters/yards but.. heft of it makes it pointless. To me.
    These are, basically, recoil less rifles. Completely. Thus the only "real" reason for heft is stability. Go figure.

    Many use air rifles, which a PCP still is, to teach their kids weapons and weapon craft. Cool enough, but therein alone are good reasons for picking a sidelever thats light weight.

    My Artemis P-15 is light as a feather and a mere 800mm long total. To light just about @ approx 2kg worth but.. way simpler to weigh the piece down as you see fit than putting it on weight loss - ill tell you that much.



    This lovely piece of kit on the other hand..? Uhu. 3.5kg. Surely within realms. Semi auto to boot, but be adviced that souping up a semi is something else ENTIRELY vs doing so for a bolt or sidelever.
    Worth it?
    Well.. id be the wrong guy to ask no?



    It is a Kral Puncher Auto in 22cal. Have handed the piece the attention they ALL need as far as barrel and the results are in the pudding id say. Disregard the two "bouncers" due an adjacent target. The hole in the middle is 4 clips worth. 48 shots at an approx power level of 65-70J thus far (approx 50lbs).
    This to the tune of (over here) approx 650€ incl shipping. What can i say?

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy chutesnreloads's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    415
    Yes sir, where you're at I think you are about spot on. However where I am changes perspective just a little.
    No question about what the newer air guns especially the larger calibers can do. But the powder burners will
    always reign in the power department. Here we have little limitation what can be used to take game or vermin.
    The air guns are plenty capable but the powder burners are more capable and at longer distances. When it comes
    to potentially dangerous critters, I'll play it safe and take advantage of the power of powder.
    I like air guns for teaching youngsters too. The light weight, no recoil certainly helps. But smaller kids
    also need a shorter length of pull to learn proper shooting skills. Thought putting a stock on a Crosman 1377
    would be great for teaching a 6 year old grand daughter.... no, the stock is still way too long. But I have an old .22LR
    that still a bit long, fits her much better.
    I know there are perfect size air guns for kids but most have unrifled barrels. Inaccuracy seems a poor teaching tool
    to me.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    190
    Nah.
    Were in agreement.
    My main focus is blackpowder guns n shooting. Creedmoor is turning 150 come 2024 where i hope to be able to attend with my original Whitworth rifle. A 451 Military match.
    That said i shoot it all, from Anschutz 22lrs to 8mm Kropa to 338LMs.

    What i AM saying as well though is that PCPs have won a piece of my heart n thinking due their simplicity of use as well as being tools - seeing more mundane causes like rodent control.
    Where, at least around here, many a time even a 22lr is simply out from a practical standpoint.

    On accuracy in turn, wasnt it Wheelen that once stated;
    "Only guns of interest are accurate ones. As the purpose of shooting is to hit what youre aiming at".
    There can be no argument, at least in my book, that a well put together and honed PCP rifle is about as accurate as they come. No matter whats used to power that rifle.

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy chutesnreloads's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    415
    Amen Brother. These pellet launchers are especially useful when you don't want to damage anything beyond the intended target.
    Can't think of anything better for controlling the local squirrel population

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check