Help with 1873 feeding issue

[Wheelgun]

I’m hoping someone more knowledgeable than me about 1873s (wouldnt take much lol) can help me out.

I just picked this up, it’s a Navy Arms/Uberti 1873 saddle carbine in 44/40, made in the late 1980s-early 1990s I believe.

I’m having problems with it jamming on first round, but only the first round.
- Anytime more than 2rds loaded it jams.
- When trying to cycle the action it jams with the lever about 1/2 way down.
- The round is at a slight angle, slightly behind carrier & under part of the frame.
- it takes some jiggling/work to get it seated correctly.

You can push it in and to the left with a small dowel and it will feed and run all 3-10rds with out a glitch.

I’ll post some pictures, any help is greatly appreciated.

- First is it jammed looking down into action.
- Second is where the round is setting while jammed.
- Last it where it needs to be (should be?) to cycle correctly.

[Rick B]

First thing I would check, is the OAL of the loaded cartridge. SAAMI spec is 1.592 OAL. Many 1873 are very sensitive in regards to this issue.
Rick

[Wheelgun]

Ok I just checked them. They are measuring 1.565-1.578.

[Wheelgun]

Here is what it looks like with the lefts side side-plate off.

First is what it looks like loaded
Second is where it needs to be to cycle

[2152hq]

The last cartridge loaded into the magazine...which is the first cartridge to be pushed onto the carrier block by the spring pressure of the mag spring,,,, is being pushed off the back end of the carrier block.

That is allowing the next cartridge in the tube to just barely move onto/into the carrier by a small amt.
This second round is then caught betw the mag tube and the carrier,,,so the carrier cannot go up or down by lever movement.

The fact that the first cartridge is hanging off tha back end of the carrier is alos blocking any verticle motion of the carrier.

You can see the section of the frame in your pics that is supposed to bloc the rear ward motion of the rounds entering the carrier.
It is a sqared off section that does not come all the way to the top (side) of the opening at the rear of the carrier because that must remain open far enough for the loading gate to be depressed and cartridges to be inderted into the tube.

From the looks of the very top edge of the rear 'stop wall' it appears to me at first guess that it may have suffered some filing or grinding to reduce it's height.
That done to allow easier loading ,,allowing the loading gate to depress further.
But in doing that, it made that wall lower and now the cartridge in the magazine,,the first one especially that is under the most spring pressure. is ableto be pushed up and over that 'wall'.

That;'s why the jammed cartridge appears a bit sideways to the loading gate side,,and the being too far to the rear,,the next round i tha mag has entered the carrier just enough to jam it's verticle motion as well.

Pushing the jammed round back into position clears any jam at the rear of the carrier as well as pushes the second round back into the mag where it belongs.
Then things feed as they should.

Less with less mag spring pressure from that point forward (less rounds in the mag), the rounds don't get pushed off the back of the carrier to cause the same problem.


Just my theory..
Try loading 8 rds in the magazine and see if the 'first rd only' jam occures. Or if the lesser mag spring pressure elliminates it.

I might be all wrong but it's one way to test it out.

[Wheelgun]

Thanks for your input. I see where your talking and it does seam to have been filed on at some point.

It jams with any more than 2rds loaded.

Also, I replaced the fallower with a new stainless one that was for my ‘73 in 45. It was shorter than the one that was in the 44/40. The new one doesn’t stick out into the receiver like the old one. It might have helped some, but it still jams with more than 2rds loaded.

[cwtebay]

The last cartridge loaded into the magazine...which is the first cartridge to be pushed onto the carrier block by the spring pressure of the mag spring,,,, is being pushed off the back end of the carrier block.

That is allowing the next cartridge in the tube to just barely move onto/into the carrier by a small amt.
This second round is then caught betw the mag tube and the carrier,,,so the carrier cannot go up or down by lever movement.

The fact that the first cartridge is hanging off tha back end of the carrier is alos blocking any verticle motion of the carrier.

You can see the section of the frame in your pics that is supposed to bloc the rear ward motion of the rounds entering the carrier.
It is a sqared off section that does not come all the way to the top (side) of the opening at the rear of the carrier because that must remain open far enough for the loading gate to be depressed and cartridges to be inderted into the tube.

From the looks of the very top edge of the rear 'stop wall' it appears to me at first guess that it may have suffered some filing or grinding to reduce it's height.
That done to allow easier loading ,,allowing the loading gate to depress further.
But in doing that, it made that wall lower and now the cartridge in the magazine,,the first one especially that is under the most spring pressure. is ableto be pushed up and over that 'wall'.

That;'s why the jammed cartridge appears a bit sideways to the loading gate side,,and the being too far to the rear,,the next round i tha mag has entered the carrier just enough to jam it's verticle motion as well.

Pushing the jammed round back into position clears any jam at the rear of the carrier as well as pushes the second round back into the mag where it belongs.
Then things feed as they should.

Less with less mag spring pressure from that point forward (less rounds in the mag), the rounds don't get pushed off the back of the carrier to cause the same problem.


Just my theory..
Try loading 8 rds in the magazine and see if the 'first rd only' jam occures. Or if the lesser mag spring pressure elliminates it.

I might be all wrong but it's one way to test it out.

^^^^^^this guy has your answer.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[indian joe]

"It only jams on the first round" says to me you might fix this by making sure when you load the last round in the magazine you make sure to push its butt right across in front of the stopper instead of leaving its rim leaning on the loading gate - could be that simple ! not saying it has not been filed but the guy that did that just might have known what he was doing ???? wont cost you a dime to test this theory

[Baltimoreed]

Usually round nose FLAT point bullets will self orient themselves with the flat nose square against the flat base of the next bullet. Any kind of roundness on the nose will cause problems with the first round getting cocked on the lifter. I tried some semi wad cutters and had this issue, thought they were flat enough but they weren’t. An excessively long mag spring will create problems too. You only need enough magazine spring to feed one round, an inch longer than the tube should be enough spring. Makes it easier to load too. After loading make it a point to check your round on the lifter to make sure it’s straight. A thin bladed pen knife will push the rear of the bullet over a bit. I’m curious what the noses of your bullets look like.

[Wheelgun]

Thanks for all your help guys.

The magazine spring could be the culprit, it is about 6inches longer than the mag tube. I might trim a little off and see where we are.

I’ve tried pushing the round over when loading, but it just falls my finger, extra round or whatever back out. A small dowel rod or ink pen works though. But is still a pain in the butt.

My boolits are the Lee 429-200 RF, so they are fairly flat meplat. I’ve also got some 200gt TC boolits from a #420 Saeco mold. I’ll give them a try.

[Wheelgun]

Just an update…

I remembered a local guy used to shoot ‘66s and ‘73s in cowboy action, so I called him.
He said he was very happy to help if he could, to bring it over Sunday evening.

I showed him what it was doing and we ran a few rounds though it behind his shop. He checked it out and had a lot of the same thoughts as you guys mentioned above.

So we took it apart, and started with magazine spring, it was about 8inches longer than the tube, he snipped about 4inches off and put the new stainless follower in and we tried it, still jammed. He then with the original follower, nope, so back in went the stainless follower. Then we started trying different length dummy rounds with different profiles billets, none made any difference.

By now we are both starting to disgusted. So he went and got one of his fairly new ‘73s that is all stock, and commenced to taking it apart. Once apart he started comparing parts and the insides. We noticed a lot of the parts in mine looked new but some quite used. The toggles and springs looked brand new, but lifter and carrier looked pretty used.

The short angled wall behind the shells that look filed on in the pictures above, was only a couple thousandths shorter. So we decided it probably wasn’t the culprit. Then we compared the carrier blocks. We noticed there was quite a lot of difference between his and mine. I think some one filed on the carrier, maybe thought it would make it easier to load? We noticed the half circle cutout on the right side was bigger top-2-bottom and front-2-back than on his, that he knew was stock. They had also filed down the front of the loading gate, making the flat part (that rounds rest against) significantly thinner than his.

He put his carrier and loading gate in my carbine and loaded 5 and it ran smooth. He then kept trying until he had 10 loaded and it ran smooth. He then put my loading gate back in and it ran pretty smooth.

So it’s looking like a new carrier or fixing mine is the plan for now. Another member here, thanks Hootmix, helped with an idea on fixing the carrier. I’ll try his idea in a few days and we’ll see how it goes.

[indian joe]

Just an update…

I remembered a local guy used to shoot ‘66s and ‘73s in cowboy action, so I called him.
He said he was very happy to help if he could, to bring it over Sunday evening.

I showed him what it was doing and we ran a few rounds though it behind his shop. He checked it out and had a lot of the same thoughts as you guys mentioned above.

So we took it apart, and started with magazine spring, it was about 8inches longer than the tube, he snipped about 4inches off and put the new stainless follower in and we tried it, still jammed. He then with the original follower, nope, so back in went the stainless follower. Then we started trying different length dummy rounds with different profiles billets, none made any difference.

By now we are both starting to disgusted. So he went and got one of his fairly new ‘73s that is all stock, and commenced to taking it apart. Once apart he started comparing parts and the insides. We noticed a lot of the parts in mine looked new but some quite used. The toggles and springs looked brand new, but lifter and carrier looked pretty used.

The short angled wall behind the shells that look filed on in the pictures above, was only a couple thousandths shorter. So we decided it probably wasn’t the culprit. Then we compared the carrier blocks. We noticed there was quite a lot of difference between his and mine. I think some one filed on the carrier, maybe thought it would make it easier to load? We noticed the half circle cutout on the right side was bigger top-2-bottom and front-2-back than on his, that he knew was stock. They had also filed down the front of the loading gate, making the flat part (that rounds rest against) significantly thinner than his.

He put his carrier and loading gate in my carbine and loaded 5 and it ran smooth. He then kept trying until he had 10 loaded and it ran smooth. He then put my loading gate back in and it ran pretty smooth.

So it’s looking like a new carrier or fixing mine is the plan for now. Another member here, thanks Hootmix, helped with an idea on fixing the carrier. I’ll try his idea in a few days and we’ll see how it goes.

Not trying to be a smart ass here but the gun feeds right after the first round jam is taken care of yes?

All it needs to function is when you load that last round into the magazine - push its butt end in and across so it comes to rest on the left side of the action and in front of the stopper . That will work unless it has been doing jams midway through a magazine full as well.

I had to file the carrier on my (old) uberti 66 when I got it to get it to accept a round through the gate without jigglin and wigglin and slicing the end off me finger.

new carrier ? if ya can get one I guess .....................

[Wheelgun]

I get what you’re saying, and yes I have pushed the round over, and it will feed. But only with a thin screwdriver or knife blade. It follows anything bigger than a Bic ink pen back out past the stop. Also only if you shoot right then. If you jiggle/carry/sit it down, it pops back over and is jammed again. So if I was only loading and shooting, like at the range that would work, but that’s not what mine are for. They get loaded and carried in the brush, tossed in the seat of the feed truck, tossed over in the corner in the tractor and on the front of the 4wheeler checking fence. When I need it, I need it to run right then, not after I poke the cartridge back in/over.

I have nice/special/rare/fancy, whatever you want to call them, guns that only get taken out to shoot targets. But leverguns aren’t one of them.

I haven’t shot it, then set it down, then tried to cycle it again. The following rds might pop over and jam too. I don’t know. I’ll have to try that.

Carriers are easy to find, but somewhat expensive ~$65-80 depending on where you find them.
Another member here told me how he fixed his with a similar/same problem. I’m going to try to fix the current carrier first before ordering a new one though.

[Baltimoreed]

Bubba the Kid got ya. Glad you figured it out. A process of elimination until the bogus part is swapped out. By all means try a fix before buying a new carrier, you can’t hurt it. Good luck.

[KCSO]

OAL too short either rework and polish the ramp or set the bullets oout till they just clear the barrel coming up.

[indian joe]

OAL too short either rework and polish the ramp or set the bullets oout till they just clear the barrel coming up.

I think he's got it figured - somebody hogged the carrier out on the right side so it would feed rounds into the mag easier - they used a rat tail file one size too big or took a couple strokes too many off it. If you good enough with an oxy torch might be able to build it back up and recontour - I would try that, proly get it done, but you need to know can buy a new one in case bubba is watching from cover - if no - 70 bucks for a new carrier - could be a lot worse

[Wheelgun]

I finally got a chance to work on the carrier. Im not confident enough to braze the carrier as Indian Joe recommended. I talked to Hootmix and he sent me pics of how he fixed his with the similar/same problem, I tried his method.

I added epoxy to the lower right part. After letting it sit for 24hrs, I filed until I could almost get a cartridge through it. Then I started with sandpaper, until a round would go through with finger pressure.
I then reassembled and tried it. It wouldn’t quite load, so I took it back out and lightly sanded and reassembled a few times until it would load.

It now works smooth, but the epoxy I used was a little softer than I’d hoped. I don’t see it lasting very long. I think once it peels out, I’ll have dad braze it up and then we’ll file it down to fit.

Thanks for all the help guys.