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Thread: IMR4227 in Uberti 1858 with Taylor's 6 round cartridge conversion cylinder

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub Johnny Diamond's Avatar
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    IMR4227 in Uberti 1858 with Taylor's 6 round cartridge conversion cylinder

    Did a search (I'm new here) looking for 850-900 fps 250 LRNFP starline brass

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  2. #2
    Boolit Bub Johnny Diamond's Avatar
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    Oops 45LC

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  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master


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    First welcome to our Cast Boolit World.
    I personally would phone Taylor's with your question. Is the barrel still stamped "Black Powder only" ?
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    4227 is not suitable for standard-pressure loads in .45 Colt which don't exceed 13,700 psi. 6 grains of Bullseye, Titegroup or WST approximate factory velocity and pressure with 250 -255 grain lead.
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
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  5. #5
    Boolit Bub Johnny Diamond's Avatar
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    Bought pistols in 2018 through Cabelas, cylinders through Taylor's at same time. Have never fired, smokeless ok, spoke with Taylor's who carried pistols at the time, only information they were willing to give was do not exceed 850 fps (guess that's fine with me) when I questioned about pressure (I've been reloading for years) they would not deviate from statement 850 fps max I have different powders for a reason... to achieve desired speed at desired pressure? I use IMR4227 for my 44mag and have several pounds, and for giggles measured 17 grains and poured in a case fills case a damn sight more to my liking than 6.2 of Titegroup. Again never fired.

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  6. #6
    Boolit Bub Johnny Diamond's Avatar
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    I am accustomed to unburt powder with H/IMR 4227 so that is not a concern. Although I'm certain it could effect my Uberti's a lot quicker than my original 44mag Vaquero. I prefer a more filled case. 6.2 of Titegroup looked like a joke in such a large case.

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  7. #7
    Boolit Bub Johnny Diamond's Avatar
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    AMMO.COM 250 grn. Lrnfp data, I typically crimp tight although I've never loaded lead before. That's why I'm here.

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  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    I would use TiteGroup and keep the velocity to about 750 fps aka a Cowboy load. Taylor's specifies "Cowboy Loads" for smokeless powders and lead bullets. If you want higher velocities and/or more power, I suggest another platform. Don't let the looks of the volumetric fill disturb you. If you wish to fill the case, use FFFG black powder.
    A uranium atom is a pretty small thing but when they split - well heck they go thermonuclear.

  9. #9
    Boolit Bub Johnny Diamond's Avatar
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    Tarheel, thanks. I have 357s 44mags and 45/70s in lever and single shot they are fine for higher velocity and pressures thanks again.

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  10. #10
    Boolit Bub Johnny Diamond's Avatar
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    Just bought a pound of FRESH Titegroup, looks like I'll load at 6gn. To drop just under 13k pressure. Thanks again all, think joining this group will prove to be one of my better decisions

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  11. #11
    Boolit Master


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    Hodgdon list 5.0grs to 6.2grs of Titegroup under a 250gr bullet, in their Cowboy Action Data handout/booklet dated 1/03.
    I HATE auto-correct

    Happiness is a Warm GUN & more ammo to shoot in it.

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  12. #12
    Boolit Bub Johnny Diamond's Avatar
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    Yepper, back in 2018 when I bought the pistols, and conversion cylinders I made a phone call and spoke to the fellow who claimed to have designed Titegroup. Rather colorful individual, almost couldn't get off the phone he said to use 6.2 grn. And I should be fine told me the max was about 880fps and with the 8 inch barrel I'd probably be OK. Never loaded not even with the almighty black.
    Well now we find ourselves in 2022 I bought all I could all through 2020 and 2021 and loaded for everything else. So now it's time to load the 45 Colt rounds. Opened up the Titegroup after all this time and wow! No odour at all and I thought it would be flake to take up volume nope, so after finding out it's about 39% nitro and being that old I got a little nervous besides the fact that it looked like a pebble in the grand canyon at 6.2 grains in the 45 colt case ! So I looked around for loads with IMR4227 found really hot ones nooooo, and found 17-19 grains which I posted above. 17 grains doesn't look to bad in that big "old" case so I started looking around for yay's or nay's about it supposed to use tight crimp with H/IMR4227 which I do for my old model Vaquero in 44mag, I've never loaded lead, sooo I posted the question here and was suggested other than IMR4227 this morning I bought a brand new pound of Titegroup and figured I'd go 6grn after I found the above loads for 250grn LRNFP 6.2 says 1300k thought I'd try 6 and drop the pressure a bit?

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  13. #13
    Boolit Bub Johnny Diamond's Avatar
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    Oops I meant to say the above listed 13000k pressure.

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  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
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    I've successfully tested 6.5 gr Titegroup in a 45-70 case (Browning 1886) based on C. E. "Ed" Harris' two articles "The Load" and "Revisiting .30-06 Gallery and Practice Loads." Hodgdon says Titegroup was specially designed to be position-insensitive.

  15. #15
    Boolit Bub Johnny Diamond's Avatar
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    That's what the man told me back in 2018, I simply let the powder sit since I spoke to manufacturer (2018) until now, recently opened container and discovered powder shape and size, and it's rather small size. As previously posted these are brand new (in 2018) unfired Uberti 1858 new model army and Taylor's 45lc conversion cylinders. I'm relatively sure the cylinders are probably stronger than the pistols? Anyway I see no reason to damage them or myself, the are kinda pretty and not intended as concealed cary or primary defense weapons. Just wanted a decent load.
    I am curious about velocity and chrono info in those 45/70 loads just for the heck of it.... been loading that cartridge since 2001 and have my favorite loads already worked up.

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  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    I regret to disappoint, but I don't have a chrony!

  17. #17
    Boolit Bub Johnny Diamond's Avatar
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    Thanks anyway, let's all stay safe and have a BLAST!!

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  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    Although it's not specific to my 6.5 gr of Titegroup, Larry Gibson's excellent thread "My Trapdoor Loads, Technique and Equipment" has velocity data for various 45-70 loads from lightweight Rapine 460210 with small charges up to 500gr boolits.

    I particularly like Part V; “foraging”, small game, plinking and indoor practice loads.

  19. #19
    Boolit Bub Johnny Diamond's Avatar
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    That's my pride and joy, Uberti 1885 Highwall 34" octagonal barrel globe front long range rear with cleaning kit removed from buttstock and and 1 3/4 pounds of lead shot in its place. Also have a JM Marlin 1895 cowboy 26" octagonal barrel.

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  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy
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    Handsome rifle. 34" barrel! It's funny when most would consider 24" long.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check