New Member Trying 30-30 Cast Loads

[DMW1116]

Good afternoon everyone. I signed up here to try to improve my cast loads in my 336 & learn about paper patching. I like to tinker with some of the more arcane things and paper patching is certainly one of them.

I currently have a load using an ACME 135 grain flat point with Hi-Tech coating & Alliant 2400 powder. My initial loads were too fast & resulted in pretty severe leading. I dropped the load from 14 grains, as recommended by the Lyman Cast Bullet Manual (155 grain load) down to 11.7 grains. The leading stopped at 13, which is the highest I’ve tried since the 14 grain load incident. 11.7 grains gave the best accuracy while testing through the 11.5 to 13 grain range. These loads are seated on the crimp groove of the bullet.

I haven’t shot them past 50 yards but they don’t really seem that accurate. I considered it a victory to get them to group at 25 yards without the leading. If I want more accuracy is there anything I can do besides try a different powder or bullet?

I’ve seen many talk about how 0.311” bullets work better in the Marlin micro-groove barrels, which I have. The ACME bullets measure 0.3095” with my calipers. Would trying the 0.311” bullets be the next logical step?

For reference I have some standard hunting loads with Hornady FTX and round nose bullets, but the cast ones seem more fitting for this rifle and don’t kick nearly as hard. The 135 grain bullet load is equivalent to a weak to moderate 357 magnum pistol load, ie a 135 grain bullet at 1100 to 1200 fps.

[scattershot]

Sorry the photo is sideways, but here’s a group I shot with my Marlin a while back. It was 50 yards, 165 grain cast bullets, 5.5 grains of Red Dot, 1080 fps. You may be trying to get too much velocity from that bullet. I believe those were .310 diameter.

[DMW1116]

The first load was definitely too fast. I was using data from the 155 grain bullet in my manual then stepped down. I’m reluctant to try more loads with the 2400 as I’m saving it for full power loads in 357 magnum. I’ll see what kind of stuff is available and maybe try again.

[Outer Rondacker]

DMW1116, welcome to the addiction. My 30-30 likes a larger bullet and more around the 160-170 grain range.

[Thumbcocker]

Fatter boolit and faster powder. Hrad to beat red dot /promo.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[kenton]

Missouri Bullet sells a couple boolits suitable for a 30-30 sized to .311. They may work better for you.

https://missouribullet.com/details.p...y=36&keywords=

https://missouribullet.com/details.p...y=36&keywords=

Others probably do as well.

[farmbif]

the only way ive ever found for a marlin microgroove barrel to shoot cast bullets any good is to size them at least .002 larger than barrel groove diameter. for your 30-30 just forget about loading a cast bullet sized at .309. best results will probably be at .310 or .311. with a gas check bullet design. you state "my initial loads were too fast" there are many good reasons why loads are worked up, this is explained in most of the reloading manuals. might want to get yourself a Lyman reloading manual or the Lyman cast bullet manual and read it. it will be very helpful. they dont necessarily go into oversize cast bullets for microgroove rifling, this is something that many with much more experience than me figured out.

[ATCDoktor]

I have found that I get the best accuracy (across the board) in all my 30/30’s (winchester, Marlin and their store brand et al) using boolits that are .311 diameter.

I’ve got one that does “ok” with boolits that are .310 but they all like the fat boolits.

This 115 year old Marlin with a bore that looks like a family of hogs moved out of it shoots the fat ones into 2 inches at 100 yards.

[725]

+1 on the advice from Thumbcocker. Hope you enjoy your time here at castboolits. This is the place for what you are doing. Paper patching is labor intensive but will give a very clean bore after awhile.

[Winger Ed.]

My 70s era top eject Winchester seems like it wants to be accurate with any suitable powder and the lubed 170 RN
with a Hornady gas check, going along in the mid-high 'teens'.

After about 30 shots, there is a little leading, but its no big deal to clean out.

[popper]

Get bullets sized 311. HiTek needs 2 coats for fast rifle. Plus GC if you go real fast. 2400 doesn't burn real well at low loads/pressure and light bullets. I'm using a 145 gr PB PCd bullet under 10 gr unique that is easy to shoot and accurate. So yes you have a good idea but wrong components. Most any pistol powder other than W296/H110 should work for you. The MBC 135 #3 whitetail looks good. If you have a lot of the Acme, might powder coat to get the dia up to 311. I gave up on PP yrs ago - too many easier methods. 15 min per bullet - nah.

[DMW1116]

I have some Winchester 231 and HS-6 but don’t have any load data for that weight bullet. Regarding paper patching I just want to learn how, there is no practical purpose. It’s kinda like black smithing.

[DMW1116]

Yea I saw there are better powders but I couldn’t find any when I bought the 2400. Would a 175 grain boolit be better? I bought the 357 afterwards so that was a good match. The more 2400 I put in the case the more accurate the loads get so far.

[wmitty]

Welcome to the forum! Don’t let the guys who don’t like paper patching discourage you. It’s worth the effort to learn how even if you decide it isn’t something you want to pursue. With your 336, the micro groove rifling requires a larger diameter boolit to obtain accuracy, as has already been mentioned. And the plain base boolits normally can’t be pushed fast, unless accurate loads are not your objective.

[DMW1116]

I’m not really worried about high velocity for now. I’m after an inexpensive target practice load. I think the 30-30 and 336 suffer from being viewed as only a working rifle. This available loads and bullets are almost all geared towards hunting. This makes the available loads and bullets fairly expensive. There isn’t a load available for the 30-30 that is analogous to the 55 grain M193 load for 223/5.56. Handloading is the only answer I’ve found and cast boolits seem the most economical option.

Looking at some older information there was a larger variety of ammo for the 30-30. It drop in popularity has led to a loss of ammo options.

[Outer Rondacker]

I have the lee 90362 mould. It was modified by the previous owner to lighten the bullet and remove the GC. Looks like they shaved just under an 1/8th of an inch off the top of the mould. I pc it and it is depending on what my mix is comes in around 90-100 grains before loading. I am still unpacking my reloading stuff and have not found my notebook with all my pet loads. I would love to share what I used but at the moment I cannot. The mould was said to drop 113grains straight from Lee. It's a lighter bullet like you asked for but nowhere close to 55g. Look up 30-30 cat sneeze loads or mouse farts and you will get some good light loads with very little resources used. I live in a state that does not let you have CANS so I play with many of these loads.

[RickinTN]

If you use a heavier bullet you will get more efficient burn with your 2400. It is a good powder for the 30-30 when applied correctly. I have several 336's and will have to tell you they won't all take a .311" bullet although I have one that will take at least .312" and probably bigger. I stopped there. I have an accurate 31-180R (I believe) which drops from the mold at .3104". It is extremely accurate from one of my 336's. There is an old rumor that says Marlins take a larger bullet than most 30 calibers. This is correct for the most part but depends on when they were manufactured. They are all different. If possible load the largest bullet the throat will take. If it will fit and fill the throat it will be swaged to fi the bore as it is fired. Fitting the throat also keeps the bullet from becoming cattywompus in the bore when firing.
I could probably write a book on the 30-30 and cast bullets as I'm sure many other folks can. Don't underestimate the potential of the old 30-30. With it's long case neck and a near perfect powder capacity for cast bullets it can be very accurate.
Good Luck,
Rick

[Mk42gunner]

For inexpensive plinking loads, the Lyman 311008 or one of its many clones works fairly well with a small charge of shotgun or pistol powder. Most any cast bullet meant for one of the .32 caliber handguns will work as well.

Read the article in the first post of this link. https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...Rifles-Article The author has never steered me wrong.

Good luck and be safe in your experiments.

Robert

[ElCheapo]

If you want the best cast bullet accuracy and velocity you have to set your gun up right. You didn't mention if it is a new or used 336. If it's a used gun you need to get all the copper out of the barrel before you shoot lead bullets. I used Shooter's choice on my 1970 336. Wet a patch and run it through the barrel, then just let it soak. A few hours later I would run a clean patch through and it would come out green. This took a couple days, and I would just let it soak overnight and when I was at work. When I got rid of all the green I used push thru slugs from Veral Smith at LBT to measure the barrel. The gun's muzzle measured .308, while the breech end measured .307. This happens because when manufacturers screw the barrel into the action they really tighten it in there, as they should. It needs to be tight, but this usually results in some thread crush. The inside diameter of the barrel at the breech end is squeezed down a little. This is bad for accuracy because when a lead bullet is shot, it gets squeezed down to the smaller diameter and then it's a loose fit going through the rest of the bore. Some folks try to compensate for this by using heavy for caliber (or oversized) lead bullets that can do fairly well because of their longer bearing surface. The longer bullet tends to stabilize better, and decent hunting accuracy can be obtained even if it's not a perfect fit. However, if you set your gun up right you can use almost any bullet you want to and get very good accuracy. When I found my gun was loose at the muzzle I proceeded to fire lap it. It's a fairly laborious process, but it took about 20 bullets with lapping compound on them shot through the bore to remove the constriction at the breech. My gun now measures .308 at the muzzle and .309 at the breech end (in front of the chamber). I size my bullets to .310, and since the tightest part of my bore is now the muzzle it's a nice tight fit all the way through.

This year I used a PC'd Lyman 311008 at 2200 fps to take a bedded buck at 75 yards. I hit him right through both shoulders and he never even got to his feet. This load shoots into 1 1/2 to 2 inches at 100 yards through my gun, and recoil is light enough that my girlfriend can shoot it without discomfort. If you take the time to set your gun up right you will get years of enjoyment out of it! If you want to learn about all this, I recommend Veral Smith's book "Jacketed Performance with Cast Bullets". Just do what he says. It works!

[farmbif]

as rickintn says, 2400 is a good powder but in 30-30 best results will be with probably 170 grain or heavier bullets.
powder valley currently has TAC available. this is a powder that is available and is effective with load data for 30-30. my go to powder for cast loads in many rifle calibers is 4198. unique is an excellent choice for many things if you can find any. there is good proven published data for it from many sources.
slow burning pistol powders like herco, unique, 2400 can be used with 30-30 cast loads but most load data is for 150 or 170 grain bullets.
I understand the doing it on a budget thing.
if you are wanting to cast your own you will probably be well served. but it will take an investment. if you have a source for alloy like old wheel weights. the cost for an old pot, burner and spoon from a thrift store along with a lee 309-170 mold and 1000 Hornady gas checks, and a lee push through sizing die, which are currently in stock at mid south shooters supply. I dont powder coat but with a cool whip container, some plastic bb's from Walmart and a pound of powder paint from harbor freight you will be well on your way to ammo independence and lots of great shooting with your 336