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Thread: Max penetration from 44mag?

  1. #21
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    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
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    Lots of exotic ideas, But I'd just stick with a Lead alloy boolit, myself.

    Alloys with high antimony content will more likely shatter on impact, which dilutes the energy.

    an alloy with equal parts antimony and tin will be "tougher" and more likely to hold together than alloys that don't have equal proportions...which will deliver the most energy to the target, making the best chance to penetrate it.

    Myself,
    I'd cast some Lyman #2 alloy, then heat treat, you'll likely get near 30 BHN.
    (I have heat treated 94-3-3 up to 24 BHN)
    I'd use a heavy boolit, like the Lee 310gr RF and work up a load with H110.
    Good Luck
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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  2. #22
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    How do you prep them blocks and boards for table fare ? Where do you hunt them, scrap yards or saw mills ? can you use bait? is there case restrictions? Will a resident guide be required? Do you have to lottery draw for tags or are they like a small game add on sticker? Are they gender restricted or do they even gender identify? Will the forestry people be protesting with foundry people like the PETA people for harvesting defenseless creations? Enquiring minds want to know I couldnt find anthing in the regs about this type of safari hunt your going on, but have lots of questions maybe some one will jump in. LOL

  3. #23
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    You guys are awesome with all the info, thank you!! I wont go down the path of cores, but will go after lathe work of solid coppers and tin. I'll need to figure out how to get that fancy crimp like Tim does....

    I can feel the wrist pain already!

    Keep the ideas coming, thank you!!

  4. #24
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    We raise some huge grain-fed blocks here in the mitten state, most have grown old and put to pasture. Easy pickin' when a buddy says he wants his barn cleaned out.

    Boards turn out to be easy too, just finished sawing up trees last month and had some left over that I didnt want to sticker...

    Lottery draw wont go very smooth I suspect, hunters will probably be pushing to the front of the line to get first crack at the few CI beasts we come up with. I'll wait until everyone's wrists are spent and finish off the beasts...

    Then we will go back inside to eat lots of PETA bread and drink mead.

    location is top secret, maybe I'll get some pics if everyone has their hunting gear on.

    Thanks for the laugh

    Quote Originally Posted by brass410 View Post
    How do you prep them blocks and boards for table fare ? Where do you hunt them, scrap yards or saw mills ? can you use bait? is there case restrictions? Will a resident guide be required? Do you have to lottery draw for tags or are they like a small game add on sticker? Are they gender restricted or do they even gender identify? Will the forestry people be protesting with foundry people like the PETA people for harvesting defenseless creations? Enquiring minds want to know I couldnt find anthing in the regs about this type of safari hunt your going on, but have lots of questions maybe some one will jump in. LOL

  5. #25
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    Hypothetically a 410 pistol would be the most efficient. A tungsten or similar rod inside of a sabot could be fired at velocities that would likely excede any 44 Mag.

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  6. #26
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    Don't know if they sill make bullets or not but you might look up BELT MOUNTAIN and see if they still make 44 bulets.

  7. #27
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    I'd use this one, as fast as I could drive it. https://cuttingedgebullets.com/44-240gr-handgun-solid

  8. #28
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    Penetrating single layer hard targets is all about energy/area, (typically smaller diameter and higher velocity wins this). Penetrating an assembly, (multiple layers) is more about momentum and structural integrity, (larger, tougher and slower typically wins in this case). If I was after cast iron engine blocks, I'd be tempted to use the Lee 310 with plenty of tin in the alloy. As always, boolit placement is the key. I'd be tempted to aim 4" above the oil pan from the side. Better chance of getting through the rods then through multiple cylinder walls and pistons.
    Last edited by BD; 01-12-2022 at 08:48 PM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by black mamba View Post
    I'd use this one, as fast as I could drive it. https://cuttingedgebullets.com/44-240gr-handgun-solid
    Thanks, I was not aware of these. I will have to give them a try.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

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  10. #30
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    I would be interested in the results of this affair. It sounds like fun. I'm glad it's y'all though and I'll be happy to just read of the results, my hands and wrists are just fine with 10 grains of Unique under a 240 cast SWC in my 629.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by RKJ View Post
    I would be interested in the results of this affair. It sounds like fun. I'm glad it's y'all though and I'll be happy to just read of the results, my hands and wrists are just fine with 10 grains of Unique under a 240 cast SWC in my 629.
    Our event is the 1st weekend in March, so my posting is to give me enough time to build and test. But I promise that after the event, there will be a detailed update. Unless some others beat me to it

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by black mamba View Post
    I'd use this one, as fast as I could drive it. https://cuttingedgebullets.com/44-240gr-handgun-solid
    Quote Originally Posted by M-Tecs View Post
    Thanks, I was not aware of these. I will have to give them a try.
    $1 each, not that bad of a price for a solid Cu projectile.
    I fished though the data sheets, They don't say what diameter for 44 cal ?
    But since they do list a 41 cal as .409 then I suspect the 44 cal is .428 ?
    That might be not the best for a Marlin levergun.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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  13. #33
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    I think the Cutting Edge .44 bullets are at least .430. I ordered some for my Bullberry 44 mag Encore barrel which is so tight it will only accept bullets up to .4295" and they wouldn't chamber. I had to return them, even though I was dying to try them on whitetails.

  14. #34
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    As mentioned, I'd go with straight Linotype and speed 'em up.

  15. #35
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    It wouldn't hurt to play around with some 40s& w cases. They make excellent bullet jackets for the 44mag. A couple years ago I did a little testing using them to make 44cal bullets for the 44spl/mag. The main thrust was to make a hunting hp for the 44mag. This is what I ended up with.


    While testing I did make up some jacketed hbwc's using 9mm cases for .357" bullets and the 40s&w cases for .429" bullets. With the 40s&w brass I made a custom expander and opened them up. Then I used plumber's flux and a cast bullet for a core. Put the expanded case with the flux/lead bullet (core) into a cast iron skillet (+/- 200 of them) and put the pan in the gas grill and turned it on high and shut the lid. +/- 10 minutes later the cores and melted. Shut the grill off and let everything air cooled. The end result was a jacketed hbwc with a bonded core. I ran those hbwc's thru a lee .429" sizing die for the final sizing.

    The end result was a jacketed hbwc bullet that could be loaded/shot traditionally in the 44cal's. It was an excellent type III hbwc with the actual base of the 40s&w case smaller then the diameter off the bullet (tapered nose). They could also be turned around and used as a huge hp/cookie cutter. I was mainly interested in the huge jacketed cookie cutter hp and tested them in a snubnosed charter arms revolver. These are the 44psl bullets I tested included the jacketed hbwc's.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    This is what the recovered bonded cored hbwc's looked like, noth the 38spl & 44spl hbwc's were shot in snubnosed revolvers.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    Did a little testing with screwing hardened screws into the flash holes on the 40s&w cases (panhead & hex head) and then bonded the cores. Also put the screws in from the inside so that the threads were sticking out the base of the 44s&w case and then bonded the cores locking everything together. I can only say these bullets were extremely impressive/destructive in hot 44mag loads in a 6 1/2" bbl'd 629 and a 10" contender.

    Actually it would be cave man simple to turn down some O1 to whatever shape/design you want. Then press fit the 01 core into a 40s&w case. I'm sure that bullet would do what you're trying to accomplish.

  16. #36
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    I have thought about shoving short sections of TIG Tungsten into 110gr hollow point 357 loads. Never followed through on it though, local dumb ass ended up serving time because he thought the ATF wasn't serious.
    quando omni flunkus moritati

  17. #37
    Maybe something like this, http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...bullet=43-335G ,heat treated ww alloy.

  18. #38
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    You might locate some of the old Norma Re loads made for the Ruger carbine way back when. Ought to be some around. Not supposed to but I shot some in a Model 29 6 1/2" once against a SBH against refrigerators at the local dump. Three side by side and that load would go through two, thru the side of the third and almost penetrate the other side. Impressed me with both the penetration and recoil.
    The 429303 cast hard has a reputation as a great penetrator as well by they're hard to cast and carry too much lube. Somebody here may let you have some to play with./beagle
    diplomacy is being able to say, "nice doggie" until you find a big rock.....

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by beagle View Post
    You might locate some of the old Norma Re loads made for the Ruger carbine way back when. Ought to be some around. Not supposed to but I shot some in a Model 29 6 1/2" once against a SBH against refrigerators at the local dump. Three side by side and that load would go through two, thru the side of the third and almost penetrate the other side. Impressed me with both the penetration and recoil.
    The 429303 cast hard has a reputation as a great penetrator as well by they're hard to cast and carry too much lube. Somebody here may let you have some to play with./beagle
    Great minds must think alike, a buddy (Jon) on here saw this thread and reached out to me, said he had the 429303 mold and was casting some up for me. I just received them in the mail today and am going to size/GC them up and start testing. I'll have to let them crystalize for a few more weeks, but no harm in jamming them into cases while they harden...

    Thanks!!

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forrest r View Post
    It wouldn't hurt to play around with some 40s& w cases. They make excellent bullet jackets for the 44mag. A couple years ago I did a little testing using them to make 44cal bullets for the 44spl/mag. The main thrust was to make a hunting hp for the 44mag. This is what I ended up with.


    While testing I did make up some jacketed hbwc's using 9mm cases for .357" bullets and the 40s&w cases for .429" bullets. With the 40s&w brass I made a custom expander and opened them up. Then I used plumber's flux and a cast bullet for a core. Put the expanded case with the flux/lead bullet (core) into a cast iron skillet (+/- 200 of them) and put the pan in the gas grill and turned it on high and shut the lid. +/- 10 minutes later the cores and melted. Shut the grill off and let everything air cooled. The end result was a jacketed hbwc with a bonded core. I ran those hbwc's thru a lee .429" sizing die for the final sizing.

    The end result was a jacketed hbwc bullet that could be loaded/shot traditionally in the 44cal's. It was an excellent type III hbwc with the actual base of the 40s&w case smaller then the diameter off the bullet (tapered nose). They could also be turned around and used as a huge hp/cookie cutter. I was mainly interested in the huge jacketed cookie cutter hp and tested them in a snubnosed charter arms revolver. These are the 44psl bullets I tested included the jacketed hbwc's.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    This is what the recovered bonded cored hbwc's looked like, noth the 38spl & 44spl hbwc's were shot in snubnosed revolvers.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    Did a little testing with screwing hardened screws into the flash holes on the 40s&w cases (panhead & hex head) and then bonded the cores. Also put the screws in from the inside so that the threads were sticking out the base of the 44s&w case and then bonded the cores locking everything together. I can only say these bullets were extremely impressive/destructive in hot 44mag loads in a 6 1/2" bbl'd 629 and a 10" contender.

    Actually it would be cave man simple to turn down some O1 to whatever shape/design you want. Then press fit the 01 core into a 40s&w case. I'm sure that bullet would do what you're trying to accomplish.
    You've really got my interest on this one Forrest.

    I've always had a hatred for 40cal...

    And a buddy and I have been working on the swagging project for 223, I think I can build cores for the 40cal and then swage to a semi-point.

    Here are 77g projectiles we have made from spent 22LR:




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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check