Max penetration from 44mag?

[Lakehouse2012]

Hi Guys,

I need some help from the experienced 44 mag guys... This year at "the camp" in Northern Michigan a group of us guys are getting together and the theme this year is Big Bore. One of the guys asked me how do we determine who has the biggest gun....? (yeah, I know, not going in that direction)

I've shot 44 mag for 20+ years, always Ruger wheelguns, but normally just a 240g GC with H110, bullet is usually my casts using multiple MP molds.

Question is: How can I turn a load into the HOTTEST it can be to punch through engine blocks? Thats gonna be the challenge this year, engine blocks and 1" thick green oak lumber. I would like to keep with my cast stuff, but maybe there is a certain type of projectile to buy?

Turn up the tin content?

Somehow steel core them?

Maybe HP's with Titanium inserts?

Im looking for crazy ideas that I will make safe prior to doing anything too stupid...

[cwtebay]

I would bet that hard cast will win that. Potentially someone could steel core some rounds and do a bit better.
But if you're REALLY wanting to win - I've got a few 0.439 cast in depleted uranium for sale.

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[cwtebay]

ATF ^^^^that was a joke!!!

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[megasupermagnum]

Unlike soft targets, hard targets like light and fast. Even heat treated lead doesn't do all that great on hard targets like engine blocks, no better than FMJ anyway. If I really wanted to win a bet, I'd be looking at a copper solid, Something like the Lehigh xtreme penetrator bullet, the lightest I could get, driven as fast as they go.

If you really wanted to stick with homemade, I'd try some hard cast, drill out the center with a drill bit, and epoxy a matching steel rod in place. Maybe try 1/4" steel rod.

[Lakehouse2012]

ATF ^^^^that was a joke!!!

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HAHAHA!!!!

I laughed HARD at this one, although I was thinking of sending you a PM, just in case...

[rintinglen]

The utmost penetration that I ever read of was achieved by taking 7/16" steel rod and turning it down until it fit in a swaging copper jacket. The rod was cut and the nose tapered to give a truncated cone and it was swaged into the jacket. I do not remember the powder charges, but it was launched at very high velocity. IIRC, the write up was in American Handgunner back in the late 70's.

However, before you fire up the lathe and start searching the internet for Copper swaging supplies, a round like that is tres illegal now. The legislation that outlawed so called "cop-killer" bullets has language that forbids making such things under penalty of law.

[R-71]

The utmost penetration that I ever read of was achieved by taking 7/16" steel rod and turning it down until it fit in a swaging copper jacket. The rod was cut and the nose tapered to give a truncated cone and it was swaged into the jacket. I do not remember the powder charges, but it was launched at very high velocity. IIRC, the write up was in American Handgunner back in the late 70's.

However, before you fire up the lath and start searching the internet for Copper swaging supplies, a round like that is tres illegal now. The legislation that outlawed so called "cop-killer" bullets has language that forbids making such things under penalty of law.

Strictly speaking I think it’s illegal to sell them, not possess or use.

I’d keep it simple and purchase some the solid copper loads or bullets.

[badguybuster]

You might look at those extreme penetrator offerings by Lehigh Defense. They are usually like for caliber and scooting fasf

[stubshaft]

Hardened steel core would be my choice too.

[M-Tecs]

Just purchase some of these https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=562 They are in stock.

[HWooldridge]

Maybe not as good as steel, but straight linotype works pretty well - I've ruptured 1/4" steel plate at close range with a really stiff load of WW296. This was out of a 6-1/2" M29. A friend of mine had an old dead pickup parked on his place and we used to shoot it with all types of ammo. The linotype would not go straight through the block but it would break a cylinder. Would also easily shoot through the body.

The best fun was another friend who had an original MG34 and some AP ammo. The results would remove all doubt of why people invented tanks...

[contender1]

Monolithic solids used for seriously dangerous big game made of brass have been doing some serious penetration into most mediums. I've never had the need,, but I've followed the discussions by folks who have used them or tried them. This is in handguns.
Many high powered rifles,, firing standard military FMJ bullets have punched steel plates or seriously damaged many of them. I have some AR500 pepper poppers on my range. One has a serious divot in it from a military .223 round.

[zarrinvz24]

If one has a lathe, I'd be looking at McMaster Carr's .500" x 12" rod of Ultra-Dense Tungsten. . . .

To those suggesting copper or brass solids, "these are not the droids you are looking for."

If you don't have access to a lathe, and definitly want to use something that you've cast yourself; I think the best option for you is a 429303 mold cast using zinc instead of lead. Seated deep over a maximum charge of H110 w/ HEAVY crimp is about the best you can do given the limitations.

[cwtebay]

Have you ever seen the crimp that Tim puts on these monster stompers?
Needless to say, I don't think you could do much better than Buffalo Bore ammunition for your proposal.

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[cwlongshot]

You might look at those extreme penetrator offerings by Lehigh Defense. They are usually like for caliber and scooting fasf

None will shoot thru engine blocks.

"Armor" piercing ammo in a HG is illegal..

Hard cast will shatter on a real hard target.

Lehigh will as well BUT will hold up better.

A number of bouteaque companies offer penetrators that might do "better".

But If I was rolling my own Id cast "real" hard cast. If I wanted "more" Id buy those leigh.

CW

[rintinglen]

Strictly speaking I think it’s illegal to sell them, not possess or use.

I’d keep it simple and purchase some the solid copper loads or bullets.

Actually it is the importation, sale OR manufacture that is illegal and subject to a stiff fine and up to 5 years in prison.

[RJM52]

Back before the sale was outlawed, there was a company who made what they called "Black Steel"...in calibers from .380 up... Carbide pointed core in a 3/4s length jacket like the old Speer bullets. Another kind they marketed had some driving bands on the hardened penetrator.

Had some .380s and tried them in a Walther PPK/s... Shot a steel Subaru wheel that had been dented. The standard ball ammo barely took the paint off. The Black Steel put a hole through the rim that looked like it had been drilled...from a .380!!

Found on the ATF website as to the 1986 ban...the Black Steel Armor and Metal piercing rounds were made by the National Cartridge Company in Georgia...

[cwtebay]

This is copied from the ATF website.


Armor Piercing Ammunition Exemption Framework
The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), as amended, provides the Attorney General the authority to exempt projectiles from the restrictions applicable to “armor piercing” ammunition if he determines the projectile is “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes.” Between 1986 and 2011 the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) received few requests for such exemptions. Since 2011 ATF has received approximately 30 such exemption requests.

The GCA defines “armor piercing ammunition” as:

“(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.”

Pursuant to the GCA, ammunition that meets this definition may be eligible for an exemption from the statutory restrictions placed on armor piercing ammunition if ATF finds the ammunition is “primarily intended” for sporting purposes. As part of its review process of the pending exemption requests, ATF sought input from industry and law enforcement organizations on the application of the “sporting purpose” exemption set forth in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(C).

ATF released for public comment a framework, including legal and technical analysis, to guide its determinations on what ammunition is “primarily intended for sporting purposes.” The framework is intended to uphold the requirements of the statute and its goal of law enforcement protection while respecting the interests of sportsmen and the industry. The framework is not a final determination; ATF will accept comments for 30 days, and will finalize the framework after considering those comments and making any appropriate adjustments.

It is important to note that the limitation on “armor piercing ammunition” in the GCA does not apply to projectiles manufactured exclusively from non-restricted materials such as copper and lead; it only applies to projectiles that include the specifically restricted materials, and can be used in a handgun. The framework will not apply to projectiles manufactured exclusively from non-restricted materials; licensed manufacturers will continue to be free to manufacture such projectiles without seeking an exemption.

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[sierra1911]

I'd heavily crimp it into a 444 Marlin case with a max load of powder, slide it into my 14" barreled single shot Lone Eagle, and hang on for dear life when I pulled the trigger. Should have around 3,000 foot-lbs of energy.

Although I've offered many times, no one else at the range has ever wanted to shoot that pistol. One commented, "No way! I just watched you shoot it."

[longbow]

No personal experience but I have read and been told that the Lyman 429303 will penetrate 3/16" steel plate at close range. It is a 200 gr. boolit pushed at high velocity.

There are a bunch of threads here on it and I'm sure on other sites.

High velocity seems to be the key for penetrating hard targets.

For a cast boolit it may be your best bet.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...-Lyman-429-303
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...rrowpoint-Woes
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...9-Lyman-429303
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...7-lyman-429303
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...n-lyman-429303

Longbow