Lee PrecisionADvertise hereRotoMetals2Inline Fabrication
Titan ReloadingRepackbox

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 45

Thread: Max penetration from 44mag?

  1. #1
    Vendor Sponsor

    Lakehouse2012's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Holly, Michigan
    Posts
    2,130

    Max penetration from 44mag?

    Hi Guys,

    I need some help from the experienced 44 mag guys... This year at "the camp" in Northern Michigan a group of us guys are getting together and the theme this year is Big Bore. One of the guys asked me how do we determine who has the biggest gun....? (yeah, I know, not going in that direction)

    I've shot 44 mag for 20+ years, always Ruger wheelguns, but normally just a 240g GC with H110, bullet is usually my casts using multiple MP molds.

    Question is: How can I turn a load into the HOTTEST it can be to punch through engine blocks? Thats gonna be the challenge this year, engine blocks and 1" thick green oak lumber. I would like to keep with my cast stuff, but maybe there is a certain type of projectile to buy?

    Turn up the tin content?

    Somehow steel core them?

    Maybe HP's with Titanium inserts?

    Im looking for crazy ideas that I will make safe prior to doing anything too stupid...

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    2,039
    I would bet that hard cast will win that. Potentially someone could steel core some rounds and do a bit better.
    But if you're REALLY wanting to win - I've got a few 0.439 cast in depleted uranium for sale.

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    2,039
    ATF ^^^^that was a joke!!!

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master


    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aberdeen, South Dakota
    Posts
    6,032
    Unlike soft targets, hard targets like light and fast. Even heat treated lead doesn't do all that great on hard targets like engine blocks, no better than FMJ anyway. If I really wanted to win a bet, I'd be looking at a copper solid, Something like the Lehigh xtreme penetrator bullet, the lightest I could get, driven as fast as they go.

    If you really wanted to stick with homemade, I'd try some hard cast, drill out the center with a drill bit, and epoxy a matching steel rod in place. Maybe try 1/4" steel rod.
    Last edited by megasupermagnum; 01-12-2022 at 01:16 AM.

  5. #5
    Vendor Sponsor

    Lakehouse2012's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Holly, Michigan
    Posts
    2,130
    Quote Originally Posted by cwtebay View Post
    ATF ^^^^that was a joke!!!

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
    HAHAHA!!!!

    I laughed HARD at this one, although I was thinking of sending you a PM, just in case...

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master
    rintinglen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Orange, VA NOW
    Posts
    5,603
    The utmost penetration that I ever read of was achieved by taking 7/16" steel rod and turning it down until it fit in a swaging copper jacket. The rod was cut and the nose tapered to give a truncated cone and it was swaged into the jacket. I do not remember the powder charges, but it was launched at very high velocity. IIRC, the write up was in American Handgunner back in the late 70's.

    However, before you fire up the lathe and start searching the internet for Copper swaging supplies, a round like that is tres illegal now. The legislation that outlawed so called "cop-killer" bullets has language that forbids making such things under penalty of law.
    Last edited by rintinglen; 01-12-2022 at 10:47 AM.
    _________________________________________________It's not that I can't spell: it is that I can't type.

  7. #7
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    54
    Quote Originally Posted by rintinglen View Post
    The utmost penetration that I ever read of was achieved by taking 7/16" steel rod and turning it down until it fit in a swaging copper jacket. The rod was cut and the nose tapered to give a truncated cone and it was swaged into the jacket. I do not remember the powder charges, but it was launched at very high velocity. IIRC, the write up was in American Handgunner back in the late 70's.

    However, before you fire up the lath and start searching the internet for Copper swaging supplies, a round like that is tres illegal now. The legislation that outlawed so called "cop-killer" bullets has language that forbids making such things under penalty of law.
    Strictly speaking I think it’s illegal to sell them, not possess or use.

    I’d keep it simple and purchase some the solid copper loads or bullets.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy badguybuster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    West (By GOD) Virginia
    Posts
    325
    You might look at those extreme penetrator offerings by Lehigh Defense. They are usually like for caliber and scooting fasf

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

    stubshaft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Southernmost State of the Union
    Posts
    4,727
    Hardened steel core would be my choice too.
    Old enough to know better, young enough to do it anyway!

    When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem is a nail.

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master



    M-Tecs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    7,726
    Just purchase some of these https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=562 They are in stock.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    353
    Maybe not as good as steel, but straight linotype works pretty well - I've ruptured 1/4" steel plate at close range with a really stiff load of WW296. This was out of a 6-1/2" M29. A friend of mine had an old dead pickup parked on his place and we used to shoot it with all types of ammo. The linotype would not go straight through the block but it would break a cylinder. Would also easily shoot through the body.

    The best fun was another friend who had an original MG34 and some AP ammo. The results would remove all doubt of why people invented tanks...

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
    contender1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Lake Lure NC
    Posts
    1,867
    Monolithic solids used for seriously dangerous big game made of brass have been doing some serious penetration into most mediums. I've never had the need,, but I've followed the discussions by folks who have used them or tried them. This is in handguns.
    Many high powered rifles,, firing standard military FMJ bullets have punched steel plates or seriously damaged many of them. I have some AR500 pepper poppers on my range. One has a serious divot in it from a military .223 round.

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
    zarrinvz24's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Heart of the Lowcountry, SC
    Posts
    453
    If one has a lathe, I'd be looking at McMaster Carr's .500" x 12" rod of Ultra-Dense Tungsten. . . .

    To those suggesting copper or brass solids, "these are not the droids you are looking for."

    If you don't have access to a lathe, and definitly want to use something that you've cast yourself; I think the best option for you is a 429303 mold cast using zinc instead of lead. Seated deep over a maximum charge of H110 w/ HEAVY crimp is about the best you can do given the limitations.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    2,039
    Have you ever seen the crimp that Tim puts on these monster stompers?
    Needless to say, I don't think you could do much better than Buffalo Bore ammunition for your proposal.

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

  15. #15
    Boolit Master



    cwlongshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Central Connecticut
    Posts
    3,226
    Quote Originally Posted by badguybuster View Post
    You might look at those extreme penetrator offerings by Lehigh Defense. They are usually like for caliber and scooting fasf
    None will shoot thru engine blocks.

    "Armor" piercing ammo in a HG is illegal..

    Hard cast will shatter on a real hard target.

    Lehigh will as well BUT will hold up better.

    A number of bouteaque companies offer penetrators that might do "better".

    But If I was rolling my own Id cast "real" hard cast. If I wanted "more" Id buy those leigh.

    CW
    NRA Life member • REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.
    Come visit my RUMBLE page!!

    https://www.RUMBLE.com/user/Cwlongshot

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master
    rintinglen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Orange, VA NOW
    Posts
    5,603
    Quote Originally Posted by R-71 View Post
    Strictly speaking I think it’s illegal to sell them, not possess or use.

    I’d keep it simple and purchase some the solid copper loads or bullets.
    Actually it is the importation, sale OR manufacture that is illegal and subject to a stiff fine and up to 5 years in prison.
    _________________________________________________It's not that I can't spell: it is that I can't type.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Rochester, NH
    Posts
    1,020
    Back before the sale was outlawed, there was a company who made what they called "Black Steel"...in calibers from .380 up... Carbide pointed core in a 3/4s length jacket like the old Speer bullets. Another kind they marketed had some driving bands on the hardened penetrator.

    Had some .380s and tried them in a Walther PPK/s... Shot a steel Subaru wheel that had been dented. The standard ball ammo barely took the paint off. The Black Steel put a hole through the rim that looked like it had been drilled...from a .380!!

    Found on the ATF website as to the 1986 ban...the Black Steel Armor and Metal piercing rounds were made by the National Cartridge Company in Georgia...
    Last edited by RJM52; 01-12-2022 at 11:14 AM.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    2,039
    This is copied from the ATF website.


    Armor Piercing Ammunition Exemption Framework
    The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), as amended, provides the Attorney General the authority to exempt projectiles from the restrictions applicable to “armor piercing” ammunition if he determines the projectile is “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes.” Between 1986 and 2011 the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) received few requests for such exemptions. Since 2011 ATF has received approximately 30 such exemption requests.

    The GCA defines “armor piercing ammunition” as:

    “(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

    (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.”

    Pursuant to the GCA, ammunition that meets this definition may be eligible for an exemption from the statutory restrictions placed on armor piercing ammunition if ATF finds the ammunition is “primarily intended” for sporting purposes. As part of its review process of the pending exemption requests, ATF sought input from industry and law enforcement organizations on the application of the “sporting purpose” exemption set forth in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(C).

    ATF released for public comment a framework, including legal and technical analysis, to guide its determinations on what ammunition is “primarily intended for sporting purposes.” The framework is intended to uphold the requirements of the statute and its goal of law enforcement protection while respecting the interests of sportsmen and the industry. The framework is not a final determination; ATF will accept comments for 30 days, and will finalize the framework after considering those comments and making any appropriate adjustments.

    It is important to note that the limitation on “armor piercing ammunition” in the GCA does not apply to projectiles manufactured exclusively from non-restricted materials such as copper and lead; it only applies to projectiles that include the specifically restricted materials, and can be used in a handgun. The framework will not apply to projectiles manufactured exclusively from non-restricted materials; licensed manufacturers will continue to be free to manufacture such projectiles without seeking an exemption.

    Headquarters

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by cwtebay; 01-12-2022 at 11:34 AM.

  19. #19
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Nothern Nevada
    Posts
    88
    I'd heavily crimp it into a 444 Marlin case with a max load of powder, slide it into my 14" barreled single shot Lone Eagle, and hang on for dear life when I pulled the trigger. Should have around 3,000 foot-lbs of energy.

    Although I've offered many times, no one else at the range has ever wanted to shoot that pistol. One commented, "No way! I just watched you shoot it."

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Castlegar, B.C., Canada
    Posts
    7,468
    No personal experience but I have read and been told that the Lyman 429303 will penetrate 3/16" steel plate at close range. It is a 200 gr. boolit pushed at high velocity.

    There are a bunch of threads here on it and I'm sure on other sites.

    High velocity seems to be the key for penetrating hard targets.

    For a cast boolit it may be your best bet.

    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...-Lyman-429-303
    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...rrowpoint-Woes
    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...9-Lyman-429303
    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...7-lyman-429303
    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...n-lyman-429303

    Longbow

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check