Progressive vs Turret

[txbirdman]

I have a friend who recently bought a 750 Dillion for his first press. Well actually I talked him into buying a Lee single stage at the same time. He’s well acquainted with firearms but has always shot factory ammo but due to the current situation he decided to get into hand loading in a big way. His main focus is 9MM; 223; and 300 Ham’r. He bought separate tool heads and powder dumps for all 3 cartridges. He asked if I would come over and help him get started. I went but told him I’d never worked with a progressive in my life instead use a Lee Classic turret. Well he read all the instructions and looked at several YouTube videos and between the 2 of us we got the 750 running except he did not like the primer feeder (having too many feed problems) nor did he want a bullet feeder. Right now he’s using virgin brass and seating primers with a Frankfort Arsenal hand primer. We raised the expander rod/decapping assembly to prevent the decapping pin from kicking out the hand seated primers. So right now he’s sizing on the first station; skipping the primer seating station; belling and dumping powder on the next station; hand positioning and seating the bullet on the next station; and finally crimping at the final station.
After reflecting on his setup (which works) it seems to me that my little turret with auto indexing will accomplish the same tasks. What would be the best thing we could do for the 750 to improve production speed.

[mdi]

I think your present method is logically the "fastest" method when using pre-primed brass, other than installing case and bullet feeders. I would probably size/deprine and prime a bunch on the single stage and have a bucket full of primed and ready for the progressive...

Speed is the last thing I think about for my handloading, been that way since 1969. I did try reloading on a progerssive, helping a friend load his competiton ammo on a Dillion auto-everything. I didn't feel like I was reloading, just pulling a handle and hearing a plop as a finished round landed it the bucket. Since I enjoy reloading, that kinda turned me off progressives. For 20 years or so I used a Lee turret with the auto index disabled, hand indexing. I felt more in control and I batch loaded (I didn't want/need a semi-progressive.).

[Green Frog]

The main difference for me between using a turret or a progressive press is sequence. With a progressive I start the first case at the first station then start pulling the lever and feeding. After four pulls a loaded case emerges and this continues until I run out of one component or another. If my progressive press is set up properly and I don’t experience brain fade, I can produce a large number of good quality rounds relatively quickly. I own both a Dillon 550 and a Star Progressive, so if they have had reasonable care and service I can get lots of good ammo.

When I load with my good old Lyman All American Turret press, I start by FL sizing and decapping a whole batch of cases, then I prime them all (by hand, off press). Then they all get belled and charged with powder. Finally they all have their bullet seated and the belling closed back down. This step may provide the crimp, or I may add a final “factory” or “taper” crimp for cartridges that need it. Each step of the way, all cases are inspected to insure that step was done correctly with each round. Each round is excellent when finished. BTW, my “other” turret press is an old Lyman TruLine Jr that still produces fine ammunition when called upon to do so.

Which is “better” or makes more superior product? You pays your money and you takes your chances!
Froggie

[JimB..]

For speed with 9mm the best thing he could do is figure out how to prime on the press. If you describe the problems he’s having, flipped primers, primers not feeding, primers dumping, etc someone will have suggestions. Calling Dillon to get their help is a very reasonable thing to do. If he’s still using steel dies then moving to carbide will save some time.

I don’t have a great answer for rifle, but before I bought a Lee APP I would dry tumble the brass, spray it with case lube, and run it through the press to deprime and size. Then I’d trim and swage primer pockets off press before wet tumbling. Finally back to the press to prime, charge, seat and crimp. This worked for me because I process in pretty large batches.

[Winger Ed.]

It's a learning curve, and you'll need to get the primer feed tweaked out.
They're not like Burger King---- where you 'get it your way',,,, on this, you do it Dillon's way or not at all.
As many of those that are out there in the Dillon cult--- the design is probably fine.

I'd get the process down smoothly first, and not worry too much about speed.
There's plenty of time to work on that later.

As far as the speed that thing is capable of--
There's a guy on youtube that motorized one.
With all his feeders & hoppers full, he'll turn it on--
and a perfect loaded round dumps out the far end about every two seconds.

[dverna]

Just get the primer system working. Like someone else advised, if you and he cannot figure it out call Dillon.

I have never had a serious issue with primer feeding on a Dillon, but I have worked with progressives for 50 years. I have not done it, but try googling "750 primer problems" or "750 issues" and see what pops up. It will be a simple fix. These machines have a great following for a reason.

Do not give up.

[dverna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xn_J8OmNfI

Here you go.

[Old Caster]

I bought a used 550 that looked like new and had primer flipping problems and just adjusted the part where you turn the turret and it took me several times to get it perfect but now works perfectly. Bear in mind that when you do this it is also related to how far the primer slide is in or out when it sits against the allen screw and in reality you are adjusting both at the same time to get it perfect and different powder slides can vary in length and it might be necessary to adjust between large or small primers every time.

[txbirdman]

Thanks for all the helpful comments. I forgot to mention he does have the auto case feeder. Seems like the consensus is that getting the priming system dialed in would the most beneficial improvement. I’ve enjoyed working with him on his new press. It’s a truly remarkable machine.

[C.F.Plinker]

I agree with the other posters that the first thing you need to do is to get the priming problems behind you.

Since you are working with virgin brass can you remove the decapping pin from the sizing die in the first stage. This will allow you to just size the brass and not have to worry about knocking the primer out.

The advantage that progressive presses over turret presses is that the progressives do different operations on several cases each time the handle is pulled whereas a turret press does a single operation on a single case with each pull of the handle. Thus it takes about 100 pulls to load 100 rounds on a progressive where it takes about 400 pulls to load the same 100 rounds on a single stage or turret press. As it is now you will have about 100 pulls to size and decap, about the equivalent of another 100 pulls to prime off press, and another 100 pulls to drop powder, seat, and crimp. This totals 300 pulls. Getting the priming to work will cut this town by 200 pulls.

There are two adjustments on the priming system. The one that is on the rear adjusts how far the slide advances into the shellplate and the one on the front (where it is hard to see and get at) adjusts the position of the primer cup where the primer actually drops it to the cup. Make sure both of these are correctly adjusted and that you are using the correct tube in the blast shield and that you have the correct cup (large or small) installed.

You have a good setup. keep at it and you will be cranking them out in no time.

[RogerDat]

I use the Lee turret. Like others I will often remove the index and use as a "pre-set" single stage or hand index. That said I know there were a fair number of folks that struggled with the Lee on press primer. I fiddled with it a bit and once I got it dialed in I haven't had any problems. The Mec progressives drove me nuts, a call to their help desk to find out some tips on adjusting and clarify some stuff from the manual is what got those working.

Two points. Having a progressive that you don't use as a progressive is sort of a waste of money. It can take some work to get right but once figured out you then have that knowledge gained for the future use and years of full functionality.

I will admit there were a few weeks there where I couldn't say "progressive" without using an obscene prefix. I don't load huge quantities but there is an advantage to being able to quickly turn out a box or three whenever I need it. If I want to savor it and work slower I can but if I want to have it for tomorrow morning, I'm good.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I'm glad others have given your friend some good advice, Because I can't imagine a newbie to start reloading on a Dillion progressive. But, on the other had, if your friend is smart and mechanically inclined, he likely won't blow his hand off.

[Walter Laich]

I first press as an adult was a Dillon SDB. Actually a SD as the "B" version hadn't come out yet

took my time and got each station working one at a time. About 30 minutes in was cranking out loaded ammo with the best of them.

I can be done and it really helps to take your time, read the instructions and break everything down into small steps

[txbirdman]

I'm glad others have given your friend some good advice, Because I can't imagine a newbie to start reloading on a Dillion progressive. But, on the other had, if your friend is smart and mechanically inclined, he likely won't blow his hand off.

Oh he’s a pretty smart guy. He builds precision bolt rifles and AR’s as a side line. Just has never delved into hand loading. He’s already seen the benefits of having a single stage in addition to his Dillon. He goes at things in a big way so I’ve tried to slow him down a bit. Told him the last thing he wants to do is make a large volume of crappy ammo. So far the 300 Ham’r has been the biggest challenge. With it’s thin neck it’s about like trying to load .22 Hornet on a progressive. Also he’s using flat based bullets so our fix was to put a Lee Universal expander die in the sequence right before bullet seating.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

"Lee Universal expander die"
instead of using Lee's cone shaped insert that comes with the die, look at NOE's website for a proper shaped expander spud.

[txbirdman]

�� iI will

[DocSavage]

The Dillon 750 primer system looks like the same as the 550 and is fairly easy to adjust,but it's been so long since I had a 550 I'm no help in the instruction dept.

[jmorris]

If he can’t get the 750 primer feed to work he should get a 650. The complaint about it was that it always feeds primers. Not a bad thing when loading ammunition is the goal.

The number one thing he can do right now to drastically increase production speed is to prime as the progressive process. Hand priming every case would take longer than all of the other process combined.

How long does it take him to hand prime 100 cases? Take that time and add that to the extra pass all the brass has to make to be deprimed first (unless he never intends to reuse brass), so he can hand prime them and that is the amount of time he would save as he would then only have to make one pass.

That said, what specific problem is he having with the primer feed? Are they not making it out of the tube? Not sitting in the cup correctly, won’t seat into crimped brass? Can you post photos of the problem cases/results, etc?

[NSB]

I’ve had two Dillons, a Square Deal and a 550B, a Redding T7 turret, an RCBS single, and two MEC’s all on my bench at the same time. After getting out of shooting major competitions where I was shooting 20-30k rounds a year I quit using both the Dillons and now load everything on the Redding. The Dillons worked great, but unless you’re shooting an actual LOT of rounds they aren’t really necessary. Get the primer feed adjusted and they work great. If you’re just starting out and aren’t shooting a lot (I mean a LOT) of rounds a year a turret will take care of all your needs.

[gnappi]

Speed is the last thing I think about for my handloading, been that way since 1969. >>SNIP<<

+1, ultra speed and reloading to me are mutually exclusive terms. If I were running full auto SMG's I might look at it differently but as it is, no.

With progressives that are finicky (as I've found most are till they're dialed in) I have run many dozens of rounds one at a time until every operation is rock solid. Even then production is the last thing I worry about.