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Thread: Guy Takes Bull Elk with Rossi 92 .357 magnum

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy
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    Mr Wesson did that in 1935 with a 357 handgun.

  2. #22
    Boolit Buddy nelsonted1's Avatar
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    Lots of pictures in the article

    https://www.ammoland.com/2017/06/bel...#axzz7HWSBAwXR
    Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2017/06/bel...#ixzz7HWTBctlv




    Bella Twin, the .22 Used to Take the 1953 World Record Grizzly, and More
    Ammoland Inc. Posted on June 7, 2017 by Dean Weingarten
    By Dean Weingarten

    Bella Twin is shown with the hide from the world record grizzly bear
    Bella Twin is shown with the hide from the world record grizzly bear
    Dean Weingarten
    Dean Weingarten
    Arizona -(Ammoland.com)- On 10 May, 1953, Bella Twin was hunting small game with her partner, Dave Auger, along an oil exploration cutline south of Slave Lake, in Alberta, Canada. She was 63 years old.

    They saw a large grizzly bear coming toward them. Wishing to avoid an encounter, they hid off the side of the cut.

    But the bear kept coming closer and closer. The bear got so close that Bella Twin thought it less risky to shoot the bear than to not shoot it. It was probably only a few yards away. Some accounts say 30 feet. Perhaps she saw it stop and start to sniff, as if it had caught their scent. We may never know.

    She shot at the side of the bears head. Knowing animal anatomy very well (she was an experienced trapper, and had skinned hundreds, perhaps thousands of animals) she knew exactly where to aim to penetrate the skull at its weakest point.

    She shot, the bear dropped. It was huge. She went to the bear and fired the rest of the .22 long cartridges that she had, loading the single shot rifle repeatedly, to “pay the insurance” as Peter Hathaway Capstick said. She made sure the bear was dead, and not just stunned. My father taught me the same lesson when I was 13.

    Here is a picture of the bear’s skull and the .22 caliber holes in the left side.


    1953 World Record Grizzly Skull
    For those curious about how to place that shot on a live bear, the place to aim is half way on a line from the center of the eye to the ear hole.

    From the front, you would aim directly up the nose. If the bear’s mouth is open, aim for the back of the roof of the mouth. Aiming above the nose will likely miss the brain.

    What rifle did Bella use to shoot the world record grizzly in 1953?

    I wrote an article asking for help in 2014. Several alert readers replied over the intervening period. Because of their efforts, and the Internets, I have been able to find more detail about Bella Twin, her rifle, and the event. One reader was able to track down the current location of the rifle and send me pictures taken by the curator of the museum. The rifle is a Cooey Ace 1 single shot .22 rimfire.


    Bella Twin used the rifle for many years on her trapline. The rifle was produced between 1929 and 1934. From a commenter at Ammoland:

    here is a quote from the curator of the museum about the gun when i talked to him via email:

    ” I can tell you that the rifle is a .22 caliber single shot Cooey Ace 1. I can also tell you that the rifle’s condition, which has remained as it was when Bella Twin shot the bear, leaves a lot to be desired. There is corrosion on the receiver and barrel, the front screw that holds the stock to the barrel is missing and has been replaced with hockey tape. There is a piece of rubber under the barrel – probably as a method of “free floating” the barrel. There is no finish left on the wood. The stock is missing a part by the receiver and there is a wood screw reinforcing a crack in the stock.”

    Bella Twin was a Cree woman. She had a reputation for being a deadly shot. Her grandson, Larry Loyie became an award winning writer. He wrote a fictionalized account of the bear shooting to include his grandmother in his prize winning children’s book, As Long as the Rivers Flow. From smokyriverexspress.com:

    Kokom Bella Twin is a highlight of the adventures in As Long as the Rivers Flow. The tiny 63-year-old Cree wo- man, who lived on Rabbit Hill overlooking Slave Lake, shot the biggest grizzly bear in North America.

    “I had to put Bella into the book. She was being forgotten. The only people who remembered her were readers of hunting magazines,” said Larry.

    In As Long as the Rivers Flow, Larry wrote that he was with his grandmother when she shot the bear. It made sense to put the story into the book, but Larry was not with his grandmother when she shot the bear. In 1953, Larry had been gone from Slave Lake for five years. I suspect his grandfather, Edward Twin, had died. Bella was 63 and was spending time with another man. Larry refers to Dave Auger as Bella’s partner in a family picture. Dave Auger was with Bella when she shot the bear.


    Bella Twin and her partner Dave Auger, family photo by Larry Loyie. The photo was likely taken in the 1960’s or later, because it is in color.

    In Bruno Engler: Photography, the famous photographer has pictures of Bella in front of the bear skin. When Bruno told her that he wanted to take the picture, she insisted on going home and sprucing up, and changing into nicer clothes. Engler writes:

    She was dressed very simply. When she thought I was going to take a picture of her she said “No, I have to go home first.” And she came back with a dress and put some cornstarch on her face for makeup. I said “Bella Twin, you looked much better before.”

    Women want to look their best in a photograph that will be shown to the world. This explains the somewhat awkward grip on the Cooey Ace 1 in the Engler photograph. Her left hand covers up the repair to the rifle.

    What ammunition did Bella Twin use? The written accounts say .22 Long.


    Ammo Used to Kill 1953 World Record Grizzly
    This style of box was produced by CIL in Canada from 1950 to 1956. It is probably the type of ammunition Bella Twin used to shoot the world record grizzly. Bella Twin is specifically recorded as reporting that she shot it with .22 Longs, not Shorts, not Long Rifles. I recall that into the 1960’s Longs were more expensive than shorts, but cheaper than Long Rifle ammunition.

    The High Velocity .22 Long dates back to the 1930’s and uses a 29 grain bullet at 1240 fps. The High Velocity .22 Short dates to about the same period, with the same bullet as the Long, but a velocity of 1125. The difference in velocity is 1240 – 1125 or 115 fps. That amounts to a 21% increase in energy for the Long, but far short of the Long Rifle, which is almost double that of the .22 Short.

    The energy figures are listed as Short 81 foot pounds, Long 99 foot pounds, and Long Rifle 158 foot pounds, all for High Velocity loads of the period. A standard velocity .22 Long Rifle is listed at 1140 fps, with 120 foot pounds of energy, or 21% more than the High Velocity Long. The modern CCI standard velocity .22 Long Rifle travels at 1070 fps, with 102 foot pounds of energy, still 3% more than the High Velocity Long.

    What was the location where the bear was shot? During my research, I came across a photo of the right side of the bear’s skull. The right side has the location where the bear was shot written on it. The bear was shot in Section 24, Township 71, Range 6, W 5th Meridian. That is a section of land about 7 1/2 miles south of Slave Lake. The bear was likely shot just west of Florida Lake. A section is one mile square.


    In Larry Loyie’s obituary in the Smoky River Express, Bella Twin is described as a tiny woman. This photograph suggest that she was under five feet tall.


    We know the date the bear was shot, because it is recorded on the top of the skull. Most written accounts only say it was the spring of 1953. It was on May 10th of that year.

    Bella Twin was only a name for most of the time I knew of her. I wondered about this famous huntress for many years. Now we know that she was an expert trapper, hunter, and a crack shot. She was a beloved grandmother who taught her grandchildren well and knew the Cree traditional folkways. She lost one man and found another. She was shrewd enough to parlay the world record grizzly into cash. She sold the skin and skull separately, and sold the old, beat up rifle as well.

    Bella Twin, I salute you. I would have liked to know you. Born in the Canadian wilderness in 1890, your life stretched between worlds.

    May your memory and deeds live long, told around many campfires. I will tell my grandchildren about you.

    Readers who know more about Bella Twin, please share your stories.

    ©2017 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.

    Link to Gun Watch

  3. #23
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    I think some of you better look up what the performance of a 357 magnum rifle really is. It's on par with 454 casull handguns. Surely nobody would ever think twice about using a 454 casull handgun on an elk.

  4. #24
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    Stories are just stories, But True Stories have body & character to them called Truth. Now that's a Good Story with what appears to be facts to back it. Thank You for sharing!

  5. #25
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    Years ago Dan at Mountain Molds (I think his name is Dan) shot a bull elk with his wimpy 357 magnum carbine. ~180ish grain hard (HTed) lead bullet at 1700-1800 fps. Busted both shoulders and exited. Bull didn't go far.

    Potent enough medicine...

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by outdoorfan View Post
    Years ago Dan at Mountain Molds (I think his name is Dan) shot a bull elk with his wimpy 357 magnum carbine. ~180ish grain hard (HTed) lead bullet at 1700-1800 fps. Busted both shoulders and exited. Bull didn't go far.

    Potent enough medicine...
    No, I'm pretty sure it was a moose, which is at least as big, possibly bigger. He had all kinds of goodies on that forum. Loosing that was as big a loss as loosing his bullet molds.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by freakonaleash View Post
    Is that even legal? Not that I care one way or another. Many states have minimum caliber laws.
    Huh? It’s a 35 caliber it’s bigger than a 30-06,308,300 WinMag, 7 mm?
    Long, Wide, Deep, and Without Hesitation!

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    No, I'm pretty sure it was a moose, which is at least as big, possibly bigger. He had all kinds of goodies on that forum. Loosing that was as big a loss as loosing his bullet molds.
    The story that I'm referring to was definitely an elk. Perhaps a moose was a different event?

  9. #29
    Boolit Master TurnipEaterDown's Avatar
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    Looks like Mountain Molds is still in business. 2022 date on website: https://mountainmolds.com/

    I do have a mold from him made round about 10 years ago, and I hold that mold very dear.

  10. #30
    Boolit Buddy kootne's Avatar
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    The original 30/30 loads were 160 grain bullet at 1900fps. I'm guessing .357 loads can be found for rifles that won't miss that by much. 30/30's killed lots of elk with well placed shots.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by kootne View Post
    The original 30/30 loads were 160 grain bullet at 1900fps. I'm guessing .357 loads can be found for rifles that won't miss that by much. 30/30's killed lots of elk with well placed shots.
    My 357 16" Rossi 92 155 grain 360640 is running 2050 fps. 185 grain FN running 1800 fps.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurnipEaterDown View Post
    Looks like Mountain Molds is still in business. 2022 date on website: https://mountainmolds.com/

    I do have a mold from him made round about 10 years ago, and I hold that mold very dear.

    Thanks! Good to know.

    I used the way back machine to look up and reread that experience of Dan shooting the bull elk with the Marlin .357. 2008.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by outdoorfan View Post
    Thanks! Good to know.

    I used the way back machine to look up and reread that experience of Dan shooting the bull elk with the Marlin .357. 2008.
    Link?

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvercreek Farmer View Post
    Link?

    https://web.archive.org/web/20101127...p?f=3&start=25


    "Let's see those cast bullet hunting pictures !"

    https://web.archive.org/web/20101127....php?f=3&t=155

  15. #35
    Boolit Master

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    Thanks! Too bad the pics wouldn’t load…

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppy42 View Post
    Huh? It’s a 35 caliber it’s bigger than a 30-06,308,300 WinMag, 7 mm?
    Over all length requirements.

    In Wyoming to be legal the over all length requirement is 1.5" and a minimum of 35 caliber so 38 special is legal for hunting and a 10mm isn't...... ridiculous
    Doug
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  17. #37
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    looking at the numbers of a 357 from a rifle and a 30/30, I don't think most folks give enough homage the 357 round

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurnipEaterDown View Post
    Looks like Mountain Molds is still in business. 2022 date on website: https://mountainmolds.com/

    I do have a mold from him made round about 10 years ago, and I hold that mold very dear.
    WARNING

    That is NOT Mountain molds. That is a scam website. Avoid!

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by beechbum444 View Post
    looking at the numbers of a 357 from a rifle and a 30/30, I don't think most folks give enough homage the 357 round
    A 30-30 can be more, but your run of the mill stuff really isn't that much different. In 30-30, your classic loads like a 170gr and IMR 3031 run around 1900-2000 fps in a rifle. A 357 magnum rifle can hit 1850 fps with a 180 gr. You can get some really good numbers from a 30-30 though, especially with some of the newer powders like Leverevolution. It wasn't that long ago someone had worked up a load of a 220 gr at some crazy number like 2100 fps. And to that, the farther distance you get, the more a 30-30 pulls away. Inside of 100 yards though, a 30-30 and 357 magnum are neck and neck, pretty much ballistic twins.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by dk17hmr View Post
    Over all length requirements.

    In Wyoming to be legal the over all length requirement is 1.5" and a minimum of 35 caliber so 38 special is legal for hunting and a 10mm isn't...... ridiculous
    My hope is that we as hunters will continue to voice our opinions on this matter, especially as airgun hunting increases. Both cartridge length, and foot pound requirements are asinine. I still firmly believe there should be no caliber restrictions at all, and people will do the right thing for themselves. At the very least go the Minnesota route, and just ban rimfires for big game, all else goes. The few outliers, are going to be outliers regardless of the regulations.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check