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Thread: Guy Takes Bull Elk with Rossi 92 .357 magnum

  1. #41
    Boolit Master



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    Great job to the fellow that harvested the Elk.

    Many of your responses clearly show the world is changing and full of new "Karens" and "Carls" !
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    Je suis Charlie
    Remember Lavoy!
    I'll cling to my God and my guns, and you can keep the "Change".

  2. #42
    Boolit Mold
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    Skill determines the outcome of most ballistic activities.
    Most of us are very skilled with the most used cartridges/firearms in our inventory.
    As the expenses, recoil, weight of the tool, etc. increase the willingness to practice decreases.
    I have seen many animals maimed by the unskilled.
    Head shots damage less meat, if meat is what your after being very skilled with the firearm is a necessity.
    Most skilled students of ballistics realize when the shot is beyond them.

    The animal appears to be dead.
    From the picture it also appears to be in good shape (read: the animal did not suffer).
    Congratulations on the humane harvest.

    Remember, humans have used slings and pointy rocks to harvest meat & kill one another.
    I would argue that any firearm is a step up in accuracy and possibly energy at the same distances.

    Note: the government may be overreaching but at least it is also incompetent.

  3. #43
    Boolit Buddy
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    First elk I killed was a fork horn about the size of an average cow. From about 50 yrds I put 2 Nosler Partitions through his rib cage with a 7 REM :Mag. He didn’t break stride. He stopped behind a pinion tree and I could hear air blowing. He walked out in the open and I put another 150 gr in his shoulder and he stumbled a little as he went over a little hill. I expected he’d be lying there dead but he wasn’t. He was headed down hill when I put my 4 th shot in him. When I got to him he was still trying to get up so I finished him with a 429421 to the head from my Redhawk. That little guy took a lot of lead. I won’t be using a .357 on one.

  4. #44
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    I have killed Elk with 150 gr out of a 308, 165 out of 30-06 90 gr out of a 243 and 280 Remington with 175 and 139 gr bullets. IME if you punch a hole in both lungs they don't go far. If you break the far shoulder they are usually down right there. Montana's seasons run concurrently. If I see a bull I am taking him with what I am carrying.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  5. #45
    Curious Caster
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    Anyone who has reservations about shooting an elk with a 357 carbine needs to give themselves a reality check and read up on historical cartridge performance. As long as ranges are kept sensible and shot placement is good, it will do the job and then some.... and that applies to almost any hunting cartridge. It doesn't matter if you're using a 338 super duper magnum, if you don't match your range to your cartridge and hit the animal in the right place you're going to get a poor outcome.

    Remember, an original 45 Colt black powder load was designed to go through a horse, and those loads aren't exactly stout compared to most things nowadays.
    I'm a big fan of data-driven decisions. You want to make me smile, show me a spreadsheet! Extra points for graphs and best-fit predictive equations.

  6. #46
    Boolit Buddy
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    For myself I would want a bigger cartrage. After 1873 the 44/40 or 38/40 were used to hunt elk and bigger animals and they worked. The 357 beats both. All I can say is good hunt and nice shot. Enjoy.
    Steve

  7. #47
    Boolit Master
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    I had a friend who was a Korean War veteran. He told me that when he got back, he "acquired" an M1 Carbine and was walking around the ranch with it when a cow elk bolted from the berm along an irrigation ditch. He put some rounds in its rib cage and it went down. I told him I didn't think that carbine was enough for an elk and he told me he didn't think it was enough for a regiment of Chinese coming up to his bunker the first night he was on the line, but the Marine Corps disagreed with him.
    He said, "You do the best with what you have at the time."

    That being said, I think I would take my 7mm Remington Magnum, mostly because that rifle fits me well.

  8. #48
    Boolit Grand Master


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    All you need is a .22 LR if you "do your part".
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  9. #49
    So, one time several decades ago I decided to take a 17 Ackley Hornet on a trip w/ me to visit a friend 550 miles away.
    I was forming brass at the time, never sighted the gun before the trip, and thought shooting outside w/ my friend who also enjoyed wildcats was a better idea than forming brass indoors shooting toilet paper wads into a padded cardboard box -- this decision after having a rather small bit of excitement w/ a "thermal event" inside the house I lived in at the time.
    So, carrying the un-sited rifle into the shooting range on a 300 yd walk over the snow from the road, we see a pesky beaver ~ 80 yds out on a frozen pond. They had caused a number of recent problems, so I volunteered to shoot (at) it.
    My friend egged me on.
    So, I pulled up offhand, shot, and of course was WAY off. I remember that the beaver didn't even lift its head in our direction.
    I then loaded another FF cartridge, guesstimated correction, and shot. Beaver tipped over. Other buddy went out and found bullet hole directly in beaver's head.

    So, does this prove no one needs to site in a firearm if they get two shots on a target?
    Hardly.

    Yes, a 50 BMG is not required in most instances to kill an elk/deer/bear.
    Yes, the physiological state of an animal matters: calm animals act different than animals that have been run hard or are scared recently.
    Yes, shot placement accounts for a great deal. However, I have never been able to encourage an animal into better placement when I hunt. They seem to have their own mind about how they present themselves.
    Yes, there are reasons that grizzly guides don't encourage clients to bring 243 Winchesters, and also generally dislike clients who bring a 460 Weatherby.

    How many times you been pressed to do something w/o the correct tool,and used (for instance) a flat blade screwdriver to remove a phillips screw? Lots of things Can be done, question is Should they be done? Or used a screwdriver as a prybar, or slipped 2' of pipe on a ratchet handle? Depends given the conditions and the need. May be smart to use the flat blade to remove the phillips screw to get your car running when it won't start 50 miles from town on a dark night. Might be stupid to use it when the toolbox is right next to you and you are working on your prize gizmo.

    There are a range of things "that work" in any given situation.
    What "works" shouldn't really be a serious consideration.

    What works consistently, without undue complications, given the considerations of the task at hand, should guide choices.

    Emergencies can dictate choices, planning helps avoid emergencies and problems from employing the wrong tool for the task at hand.

  10. #50
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    Animals can do strange and sometimes amazing things when shot.
    I have shot approx 200 deer in the last 39 years (NC limit is 6 a year with normal tags and you can purchase an additional 4 doe tags )
    many years I have put 3 in my freezer then find families in need and donate meat to them.
    in those years I have used from a 300 Weatherby Magnum down to a 6mm Rem and a lot of calibers in between. Both jacketed bullets and the last 7 years cast only. Perfectly hit heart shot deer have been DRT and some have run 50 to 60 yds. Placement is paramount but not always a DRT
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  11. #51
    Boolit Grand Master
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    some of the same people think you can't kill a deer with a 220 swift
    but it's where you hit em
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  12. #52
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    All you need is a .22 LR if you "do your part".
    Think of it this way. A 357 magnum rifle at 65 yards, is about equivalent to a 308 winchester at 300 yards. Nobody in their right mind will ever talk down on a 308 winchester, and some people take some crazy long shots on elk.

  13. #53
    Boolit Grand Master


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    As long as I have the option I will carry enough gun for the task and usually ere on the side of too much gun.
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  14. #54
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    Think of it this way. A 357 magnum rifle at 65 yards, is about equivalent to a 308 winchester at 300 yards. Nobody in their right mind will ever talk down on a 308 winchester, and some people take some crazy long shots on elk.
    I really like this comparison.

  15. #55
    Boolit Buddy
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    I second the thoughts of missionary5155, I think too much gun is better than just enough. Who determines that? The shooter. Heavies usually carry more confidence when I hunt. Your mileage may vary.

  16. #56
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    Think of it this way. A 357 magnum rifle at 65 yards, is about equivalent to a 308 winchester at 300 yards. Nobody in their right mind will ever talk down on a 308 winchester, and some people take some crazy long shots on elk.
    The .308 hits with just under twice the energy at 300 yards than the .357 in a carbine at 65 yards.

    I am not on my computer and cannot do links. I will post later if I remember.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  17. #57
    Boolit Grand Master


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    According to the Federal ballistic calculator I get the following

    357 magnum 180 gr @ 65 yards = 1625 fps

    308 winchester 180gr @ 300 yards = 1858

    So I did misspeak, a 308 winchester 180gr @ 400 yards = 1649 fps

  18. #58
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I guess I have to champion the unpopular view on this.

    First, one always hears about the unexpected successes of this or that cartridge that really isn't intended for that particular job: "I shot a grizzly with a .22 short. I shot an elk with a .22 magnum." In this case, "I shot an elk with a .357 Magnum." The reason why you read about such events is that they are unusual, not the norm.

    What we don't hear about, because it is embarrassing, shameful, and unethical are the times that the chosen cartridge was insufficient to do the job. Have you ever read something like, "I shot an elk with a .357 Magnum at 150 yards. I hit it, but it ran away, and now there's 1,100 lbs. of prime elk meat rotting out in the woods?

    Some things will almost never work (like the grizzly with the .22), some things will work some of the time, like a .357 Magnum at 60 yards, and some things will work almost all of the time like a .30-40 Krag 220 gr. RNSP at 150 yards on any of the above.

    There is a concept in hunting sports called "Fair Chase", which involves more than stalking and marksmanship. It is an obligation to use the firearm/caliber matched to the game for any circumstances likely to be encountered when afield. Chose the gun that will bring the animal down even if your marksmanship is a bit off, the animal moved as you squeezed the trigger, etc. If you're going elk hunting and the shot could be from 25 yards to 200 yards the Rossi R-92 in .357 Mag. is not the ethical choice to take from the rack. You don't know what the circumstances such as range and weather (fog, rain), brush and terrain will be when the moment arrives. Common sense and ethics have to govern your choice. If they don't, you're not a sportsman.

    DG

  19. #59
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    According to the Federal ballistic calculator I get the following

    357 magnum 180 gr @ 65 yards = 1625 fps

    308 winchester 180gr @ 300 yards = 1858

    So I did misspeak, a 308 winchester 180gr @ 400 yards = 1649 fps
    Please share load data. .357 with 180 gr has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 1400 fps on the Hodgdon site....this was their rifle data
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  20. #60
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    Please share load data. .357 with 180 gr has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 1400 fps on the Hodgdon site....this was their rifle data
    My favorite loads come from either the Lyman pistol and revolver handbook, or Lee reloading manual. If you are willing to accept a slight reduction, the 170gr bullet load for 300-MP on the Alliant website is a dozy, and will readily surpass 1900 fps from a rifle. I didn't want to compare 158 gr since it stacks odds in the 357's favor too much. I have no idea why Hodgdon list such low velocity, because their listed max loads of H110 and a 180gr are over 1300 fps in my 5" revolver. They are WAY faster than that in a rifle, generally in the 500 fps gain over a revolver, but I can't give you first hand knowledge, since I do not currently have a 357 magnum rifle.

    You don't even have to load them. Federal 158gr American Eagle round comes out of a rifle close to 1900 fps. Buffalo Bore's 180gr does 1850 fps.

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