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Thread: Starting out at hopeless and moving toward better prepared

  1. #41
    Boolit Master elmacgyver0's Avatar
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    I am to the point that I don't worry too much about it anymore.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmacgyver0 View Post
    I am to the point that I don't worry too much about it anymore.
    In the shape my wife and I are in, we're probably going to DIP. Die in place. I don't think the kids that are living in the area, one with us, one half-way across the city, are going to do all that well if TEOTWAKI happens, and the other one is near the coast in Virgina, last we heard. I think it's been four years or more since we've even heard from her.

    Maybe I can die in battle and go to Valhalla. That would be so confusing to a bunch of people!

    Bill

  3. #43
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    So I believe I am beginning to see two patterns here!

    1. We start out with little to nothing and few if any abilities. We start acquiring useful items and training so we can go from where we are to somewhere better.

    2. We realize we need to relocate to somewhere better before trouble and learn to fit in and become accepted.

    So let's talk about what to look for in "that better place" and trade-offs we might have to consider!
    Hint One: I really like the pond at my new place. I have read it can produce more protein than the same square footage used as anything but a pond. I am not sure if that is before or after considering the protein in the beasts and fowl that wander by. I have also heard that fish in a pond have a 1:1 ratio for food you feed them to growth. I have also heard 2:1 ratio. Anyhow, protein all ready to harvest and if you don't fish it out it is self renewing. What a cool idea!

  4. #44
    Boolit Master Scrounge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markopolo View Post
    LOL at B.M. sir.... you could just bug out now and come to Alaska... I am pretty bugged out already. Or maybe its just that I am Bushy?
    There is a tiny problem with bugging out to Alaska, for me at least. I have had arthritis since age 17. Cold aggravates the snot out of it. I'd probably be sort of OK in the summer. When it gets cold is another story.

    Bill

  5. #45
    Boolit Master Scrounge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrassMagnet View Post
    So I believe I am beginning to see two patterns here!

    1. We start out with little to nothing and few if any abilities. We start acquiring useful items and training so we can go from where we are to somewhere better.

    2. We realize we need to relocate to somewhere better before trouble and learn to fit in and become accepted.

    So let's talk about what to look for in "that better place" and trade-offs we might have to consider!
    Hint One: I really like the pond at my new place. I have read it can produce more protein than the same square footage used as anything but a pond. I am not sure if that is before or after considering the protein in the beasts and fowl that wander by. I have also heard that fish in a pond have a 1:1 ratio for food you feed them to growth. I have also heard 2:1 ratio. Anyhow, protein all ready to harvest and if you don't fish it out it is self renewing. What a cool idea!
    Hope you have a green thumb. I have a black thumb. I seem to kill any plant I touch. Seriously. Iast time I tried to grow tomatoes, something I'd done successfully as a teenager, I calculated the the tomatoes I harvested cost about $300/pound. I guess I must be of Cain's blood.

    Bill

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrounge View Post
    There is a tiny problem with bugging out to Alaska, for me at least. I have had arthritis since age 17. Cold aggravates the snot out of it. I'd probably be sort of OK in the summer. When it gets cold is another story.

    Bill
    You just need to bug out to SE Alaska. far Southeast. normally rainy rainforest, but does get an occasional cold snap, but for the most part, winter is in the upper 30's-40's and raining. but there are so many resources here.. you aint gunna starve if you have an interest in not starving.
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrassMagnet View Post
    So I believe I am beginning to see two patterns here!

    1. We start out with little to nothing and few if any abilities. We start acquiring useful items and training so we can go from where we are to somewhere better.

    2. We realize we need to relocate to somewhere better before trouble and learn to fit in and become accepted.

    So let's talk about what to look for in "that better place" and trade-offs we might have to consider!
    Hint One: I really like the pond at my new place. I have read it can produce more protein than the same square footage used as anything but a pond. I am not sure if that is before or after considering the protein in the beasts and fowl that wander by. I have also heard that fish in a pond have a 1:1 ratio for food you feed them to growth. I have also heard 2:1 ratio. Anyhow, protein all ready to harvest and if you don't fish it out it is self renewing. What a cool idea!
    I have a small spring fed spring that I wanted to dam up and make a small lake between hills (live in mountains of WV). Got a quote to put in lake - $100,000. I laughed at the guy. Said need to do this and that plus not really accessible, which is true. Figure take out some trees a bit at a time, cut them for lumber, but basically play at it. If it works, great. It is a good additional source of food.

  8. #48
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrassMagnet View Post
    I really like the pond at my new place.
    They're great.
    Either research what sort of fish & such will be the best to maintain the whole ecosystem.
    You'll probably end up with a mix of some kind of catfish, sunfish like bream, a few bass, etc.
    Some places have county agent who is a biologist and can really help you set it up to maximize it.

    Some kinds of fish will tend to over populate, then you'll need to call in the grand kids to keep them in check.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrWolf View Post
    I have a small spring fed spring that I wanted to dam up and make a small lake between hills (live in mountains of WV). Got a quote to put in lake - $100,000. I laughed at the guy. Said need to do this and that plus not really accessible, which is true. Figure take out some trees a bit at a time, cut them for lumber, but basically play at it. If it works, great. It is a good additional source of food.
    Get somebody to trap you a few live beavers.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrassMagnet View Post

    So let's talk about what to look for in "that better place" and trade-offs we might have to consider!
    Hint One: I really like the pond at my new place. I have read it can produce more protein than the same square footage used as anything but a pond. I am not sure if that is before or after considering the protein in the beasts and fowl that wander by. I have also heard that fish in a pond have a 1:1 ratio for food you feed them to growth. I have also heard 2:1 ratio. Anyhow, protein all ready to harvest and if you don't fish it out it is self renewing. What a cool idea!
    The norm in the southern region is to stock catfish, bass and bream. If you stock bream, you must either stock bass and keep the bream caught out or constantly keep the bream caught out. But whatever you do, don't take out the bass. Big bream make lots and lots and lots of little bream being the prey species they are, but they also secrete a hormone than stunts the fishes growth when a pond.lake becomes over stocked. Problem is , that same hormone stunts the bass too. Lots of people start out with good intentions, but it's near impossible to keep up with for many, they either get tired of fishing or they start to look at their fish as pets, like a got a big aquarium on the back forty. So just bear in mind that once you have a stable population you are going to either do a lot of fishing, a lot of fish trapping, eat a lot of fish or have one helluva well fertilized garden, but to keep the population stable, you will have to remove fish, most especially the bream.

  11. #51
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    Hint Two: My place came with a small orchard. Apple, pear, plum, and at least five peach. I will add more. I really like prune plums and apricots. The neighbor has walnuts which drop a lot of nuts on my side of the fence. Maybe 30% of nine or ten large walnut trees. Why prune plums? Because I like to dry fruit. Some berry vines, too. I will add more of those. Free food, well almost. Fruit trees need to be sprayed. Same for nut trees.

    Fish in Missouri tend to be bluegill and large mouth bass.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markopolo View Post
    You just need to bug out to SE Alaska. far Southeast. normally rainy rainforest, but does get an occasional cold snap, but for the most part, winter is in the upper 30's-40's and raining. but there are so many resources here.. you aint gunna starve if you have an interest in not starving.
    I'm in central Oklahoma now. It's too cold for me some years. Was pretty comfortable outside Los Angeles. Moved to Colorado at age 15, went back to LA county at 17. Enlisted in the USAF at 18, wound up in Clovis, New Mexico just before I turned 19. Kneeds went out the winter after I turned 19. Because of arthritis. The tropics work best for me. Not that I can talk Uncle Sam into sending me there again. Something about retiring from the USAF in 1997, he doesn't seem to think I need any more orders.

    Bill

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrassMagnet View Post
    Hint One: I really like the pond at my new place. I have read it can produce more protein than the same square footage used as anything but a pond. I am not sure if that is before or after considering the protein in the beasts and fowl that wander by. I have also heard that fish in a pond have a 1:1 ratio for food you feed them to growth. I have also heard 2:1 ratio. Anyhow, protein all ready to harvest and if you don't fish it out it is self renewing. What a cool idea!
    Managing the pond would be one part of the solution but it may not take long to fish it out, likewise the local game population. Your little slice of heaven may not respond well to you being the new Apex Predator on the block unless there are very few other humans doing the same thing.
    In any case, I think it would be important to grow as much as you can and use animal proteins to supplement your diet: every pound of food you can grow equals less pressure on the fish and game in your area. I could eat lake trout and whitetail every day of week and be pretty happy about that... until they run out. Even if you're the only person for miles or hundreds of miles, animal populations are occasionally reduced or displaced for reasons beyond your control.
    There are formulas to calculate the number of acres or the amount of produce needed to support each person in your group. I lived in an apartment complex a few years ago and I gave it some thought. If the world fell apart and my building was vacant (except for me) I'd have a two-story brick and mortar compound with a 50 yard x 100 yard courtyard, suitable for agriculture. Security issues would have to be addressed but it seemed like I could have made it work.
    Warning: I know Judo. If you force me to prove it I'll shoot you.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSnover View Post
    Managing the pond would be one part of the solution but it may not take long to fish it out, likewise the local game population. Your little slice of heaven may not respond well to you being the new Apex Predator on the block unless there are very few other humans doing the same thing.
    In any case, I think it would be important to grow as much as you can and use animal proteins to supplement your diet: every pound of food you can grow equals less pressure on the fish and game in your area. I could eat lake trout and whitetail every day of week and be pretty happy about that... until they run out. Even if you're the only person for miles or hundreds of miles, animal populations are occasionally reduced or displaced for reasons beyond your control.
    There are formulas to calculate the number of acres or the amount of produce needed to support each person in your group. I lived in an apartment complex a few years ago and I gave it some thought. If the world fell apart and my building was vacant (except for me) I'd have a two-story brick and mortar compound with a 50 yard x 100 yard courtyard, suitable for agriculture. Security issues would have to be addressed but it seemed like I could have made it work.
    Hint Three: Grow your own food! Growing your own food can sure encompass a lot of territory! Not lots of square feet, but a lot of methods! Since home grown food requires preservation to eat it year round you are also going to have to preserve and store your own home grown food.
    Hint Three-Alpha: Grow your own food! Garden, green house, aquaculture, small animals, large animals, trapping, etc
    Hint Three-Bravo: Food Preservation. Canning, dehydrating, freeze drying, root cellar. Not so much freezing and refrigerating!
    Hint Three-Charlie: Small animals such as chickens and rabbits, etc.
    Hint Hint Three-Delta: Large animals such as horses, cattle, goats, sheep, emus, etc.

    So, under Three-Alpha I want to experiment with aquaculture, gardening, and greenhouses. Oh my! Now I need Hint Four: Energy sources.

  15. #55
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    Hint Four: Energy sources. Electric, propane, fire wood, solar, etc.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrassMagnet View Post
    Hint Four: Energy sources. Electric, propane, fire wood, solar, etc.
    If you have a modicum of tools and knowledge, and a good scrap pile, you can make a windmill to generate some electrical power. It's quite variable, so the best way to do it also requires a means of storing electricity. Much like generating it, storage can get complex and expensive fast! Need more knowledge and tools!

    Bill

  17. #57
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    People think they will survive off the land like the pioneers and natives did. Not very likely with our population density. You want enough food stocked to get past the “die off”. Expect 75% or more of the population to die in the first 6 months. You will be killing a lot of folks and their families...either directly or indirectly. Many of us will be Christians in name only after the first six months.

    We will rationalize that it is God’s will...but we know better. We will not survive by having prayer meetings. May God have mercy on us for what we will do. Man is essentially evil...we will prove it.

    Becoming one with the Tribe we become members of will be necessary. If the leader calls for a raid on another tribe, you will fall in line or be expunged. My tribe will likely be lead by the patriarch who heads the local bear hunters. Many members of the group are folks we are associated with. He is a ruthless SOB, knows the area and people from living, hunting and guiding his whole life here.

    The ability to grow food makes people useful and necessary for the tribe. They will need the tribe for protection as they will be unlikely to survive without it. Much the same as serfs in the Middle Ages depended on their noble for protection.
    Don Verna

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  18. #58
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    Don, you make a very valid point: Good people are going to have to do some very nasty things.

    It's something to think about and prayer or not, life is going to require it. Those who won't do those things will die alongside their families.

    --Wag--
    "Great genius will always encounter fierce opposition from mediocre minds." --Albert Einstein.

  19. #59
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    Hint Five. Make sure you have a staple water source. Irrigating your crops from your well is not a good idea unless you are sure of the supply. My well is 400' deep. I know because I had to replace the pump two years ago. We thought about growing more crops, but until I address the water supply, it I on hold.
    Last edited by MrWolf; 01-19-2022 at 06:50 PM. Reason: Took a shortcut and got a ticket for it ��

  20. #60
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    Hint Six: Food Storage.
    I do believe the time remaining to get ready is very short. Maybe weeks, maybe months, and I can't even believe we have a year or years left.
    Start with what you normally eat and just buy more, lots more! Then start adding staples like beans and rice. All of the experts I trust expect a boring diet of beans and rice to cause major morale problems and they stress essentials first and then add variety followed by more essentials and more variety. Keep growing.
    Now for all of these fancy emergency survival food plans. None of them are the plan for you to follow. Period. End of story, well not really! You can buy some of them as part of your variety! You can even have some MREs as part of your variety or special purpose foods. I keep a few, very few, MREs around. I have more survival food bars around (SOLAS) then MREs.
    SOLAS are "Survival of Life at Sea" cookies or biscuits which are US Coast Guard approved for use in life rafts. They come in 1200, 2400, and 3600 calorie packs and only the 2400 and 3600 calorie packages are SOLAS approved. Each package is subdivided into smaller 300 calorie bars. Some of them I have are five year shelf life, storage from -50 degrees to 149 degrees, and can be stored in a vehicle for years. I have stored them in work vehicles for years and eaten them after the expiration date. Very boring, but nutritious. Not quite tasty enough to eat as candy bars, but tasty enough to eat. Buy different brands because each brand has a different flavor. Lemon, apple, etc. Note: I have even opened them and moved them to gallon zip lock baggies and eaten them over the next month or so just to prove I could.

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