New .32 Rimless Cartridge

[uscra112]

The contrived scarcity of ammo and especially primers is going to put an end "stopwatch gaming" anyway.

[dverna]

Yes, struck a nerve it did. One has to surmise this is a bit of deja vu in an uncomfortable way.

Not really. There is no need for this 9mm guy to get defensive...unless I saw the 9mm as now inferior and I am stuck with what I have. I would have standardized on the .40, but my fiancé did not like shooting it so 9mm it was.

Guys who like new toys will gobble up the hype...just like they always do. Anything to “need” a new toy.

The pistols we carry are the pistols we use for home defense and having carbines in the same caliber is advantageous. With over $3500 invested in one platform, there would have to be a good reason to make a switch, and I do not see it.

I reload so am shielded from ammunition supply problems. Most people do not reload and if they cannot find affordable 9mm, it will be a leap of faith to believe a new caliber will be “cheap”, and enjoy better availability in the long run.

[Mytmousemalibu]

The contrived scarcity of ammo and especially primers is going to put an end "stopwatch gaming" anyway.

An end of it....I doubt it, slowed down, absolutely and thats been a reality since the 19 garbage. First due to cancelations that hit everything and then component shortages. Plenty of competition guys learned the hard way during the previous shortages, buy cheap, stack deep. Nothing new to this crowd where the majority use a lot of the same things, N320, 3N38, Federal primers, Starline brass for example. All of which are not always easy to get so when you can, buy a lot of it. During Trumps office, many capitalized on this and aren't effected by the current situation. If things never improve then eventually yes we'll be hurting too. Last season, most of the matches filled all the available slots so while many have paused, more took their place. Quite a few have sponsor deals that cover or help with ammo. Some just adjusted class and bought factory ammo to shoot. At the local level, like others, we are allowing rimfire for club matches. So people have more choices and still get to participate. We were prepared to try pellet/BB/airsoft but things appear to be getting better. People that want to go shoot will find a way.

[Lloyd Smale]

Not really. There is no need for this 9mm guy to get defensive...unless I saw the 9mm as now inferior and I am stuck with what I have. I would have standardized on the .40, but my fiancé did not like shooting it so 9mm it was.

Guys who like new toys will gobble up the hype...just like they always do. Anything to “need” a new toy.

The pistols we carry are the pistols we use for home defense and having carbines in the same caliber is advantageous. With over $3500 invested in one platform, there would have to be a good reason to make a switch, and I do not see it.

I reload so am shielded from ammunition supply problems. Most people do not reload and if they cannot find affordable 9mm, it will be a leap of faith to believe a new caliber will be “cheap”, and enjoy better availability in the long run.

im with you. It doesnt do anything the 9 doesnt do better and i can find 9mm brass laying on the ground for free and theres a ton of good molds that make it darned near as cheap as shooting 22s and i dont have to rely on the inconsistant supplys of 22s. I probably shoot more 9s then ever other caliber combined. Not a cheerleader for the 9s. Id much rather have a 40 or 45 on my side if it ever came down to actually needing to defend myself or family. But i just dont see an advantage to having the same sized shield in a less powerful round that will probably ring your ears every time you shoot it. Now if it would fit in a lcp to replace the 380 i might look hard at it. But my guess is if you found one of those 30s used 10 years from now its doubtful it would have had 5 boxes of ammo shot through it.

[uscra112]

An end of it....I doubt it, slowed down, absolutely and that's been a reality since the 19 garbage. First due to cancellations that hit everything and then component shortages. Plenty of competition guys learned the hard way during the previous shortages, buy cheap, stack deep. Nothing new to this crowd where the majority use a lot of the same things, N320, 3N38, Federal primers, Starline brass for example. All of which are not always easy to get so when you can, buy a lot of it. During Trumps office, many capitalized on this and aren't effected by the current situation. If things never improve then eventually yes we'll be hurting too. Last season, most of the matches filled all the available slots so while many have paused, more took their place. Quite a few have sponsor deals that cover or help with ammo. Some just adjusted class and bought factory ammo to shoot. At the local level, like others, we are allowing rimfire for club matches. So people have more choices and still get to participate. We were prepared to try pellet/BB/airsoft but things appear to be getting better. People that want to go shoot will find a way.

Of course I hope you're right, but economics always gets the last word. Thinking back - during the FDR Depression shooters took to the .22 belly-shooting game in droves, because ammo was so much cheaper and perhaps because .22 ranges were so much easier to build.

I belong to a rifle club that normally hosts several pistol events every year. (Inactive, owing to age and handicaps.) The CCPVirus panic of course has had its' effect, so it'll be harder to analyze the influence of the ammo shortage on the game(s), but I'll still keep watch, just out of curiosity.

[Daekar]

I think this cartridge looks different depending on where you're sitting. To a reloader who has already decided that the 9mm they're carrying has sufficient capacity and has reloading equipment for it, the proposition isn't too intriguing.

To me, who has sold even his 9mm in favor of 357mag revolvers which don't throw brass all over Creation, even 9mm seems a poor choice - YMMV, of course.

To those who don't reload and who are interested in either getting an upgrade or a first gun, this is actually pretty interesting as long as the prices are where they project them to be. If I were interested in getting a new carry gun I would certainly be looking at the 30SC Shield EZ very hard, and be looking with interest at the guns designed specifically to take advantage of this round. More bullets are always better, and reaching the 8 or 9 round threshold in a gun which formerly might've held 6 or 7 is a real difference.

[charlie b]

Doesn't do anything I need that I don't already have covered. I have a 9mm with 15rnds. If I want more a mag swap is at hand with 15, 20 or even 30 rounds.

Carry is a .45 Lite Commander. 8rnds is enough Yes, I might be a luddite when it comes to guns.

[dverna]

I think this cartridge looks different depending on where you're sitting. To a reloader who has already decided that the 9mm they're carrying has sufficient capacity and has reloading equipment for it, the proposition isn't too intriguing.

To me, who has sold even his 9mm in favor of 357mag revolvers which don't throw brass all over Creation, even 9mm seems a poor choice - YMMV, of course.

To those who don't reload and who are interested in either getting an upgrade or a first gun, this is actually pretty interesting as long as the prices are where they project them to be. If I were interested in getting a new carry gun I would certainly be looking at the 30SC Shield EZ very hard, and be looking with interest at the guns designed specifically to take advantage of this round. More bullets are always better, and reaching the 8 or 9 round threshold in a gun which formerly might've held 6 or 7 is a real difference.

You make a couple of good points. Like you said, I look at from the perspective of a reloader/experienced shooter, and someone who used to shoot a lot of CF before things got crazy. BTW like you, we go tired of chasing brass. Even though I have thousands of cheap/free 9mm cases, we shoot at our own range, so we do not leave cases on the deck/ground. We bought two .686+ revolvers about 3-4 years ago and were using .38's for target work. But it made no sense to burn up $100+/k primers for plinking, so during the Crosman Black Friday sale we bought two PCP pistols for cheap practice shooting.

For a new shooter who does not reload this new round will be attractive. People who cannot shoot will want the extra rounds in the magazine. And the gun rags will be ecstatic over it...fueling the fire so to speak. A new shooter may not be thinking..."What if this is another .243 WSSM?" They have never seen "new and improved" rounds get pushed to the sidelines in a few years.

Looks like there are a lot of folks here on both sides of the question. The 9mm guys wondering what it does better, and the .32 cal guys happy that this proves they were right all along and getting another option.

Still wish me fiancé could shoot the .40, but it is a handful in a Kahr. I figure any bullet that makes a 9mm better makes a more powerful round better too. I will take one round less to get the added umph.

A lot of folks will buy into this new round. More shots will be important to them. I know a couple of people who do "protection work" who moved from the 1911 for that reason. They carry Glock 22's. But they need the round count and are getting twice as many shots, not two more.

I do not see a bright future for it. LEO's are unlikely to adopt it as they currently carry guns with plenty of capacity. No way the military will adopt it. The soccer moms and dads will buy 2 boxes of ammo and have enough ammunition for a lifetime. The .32 aficionados will see a repeat of the other .32 attempts over the last few years...only worse. At least the .327 Mag could fire other .32 ammunition and be easily downloaded for plinking. Most .32 fans are revolver and lever action boys. If they have a .327 revolver, they are unlikely to drop the coin on a new semi-auto and load a new caliber that may not make it long term.

[P Flados]

At least the .327 Mag could fire other .32 ammunition and be easily downloaded for plinking. Most .32 fans are revolver and lever action boys. If they have a .327 revolver, they are unlikely to drop the coin on a new semi-auto and load a new caliber that may not make it long term.

I agree a with a lot in the last posts by Daekar and Dverna, but am not so sure about the statements above.

Unlike the weird rifle cartridges that now have no source for either loaded rounds or brass, this round and the 350L are unlikely to become unobtainium due to one significant difference. That most wonderful source of straight wall brass known as Starline. Look at all the weird brass they still provide for straight wall brass in rounds that never made it to the point of being offered in more than a handful of guns. And with Starline making brass, I expect there will be the small specialty ammo assemblers providing ammo (at a price) if popularity declines to the point that Midway, Midsouth, CTD, etc. drop it as a regular offering.

Now the other point is in regard to 327 revolver owners. If a 327 revolver owner shoots his 4" or less barrel length gun on a regular basis, it is very likely that it is not with full power ammo. I load mine to a level where the muzzle blast is closer to the 9mm and in the process my power level is just above the 32 H&R (this is less than the 30 SC). With the full power 30 SC muzzle blast "comparable to the 9mm", down loading will be less of a thing. For really small guns, ammo with lighter bullets will probably become available to reduce recoil.

If a 327 owner wants a carry gun with a little more capacity and does not reload, the expected cost per round should drop (they are quoting similar to 380). These folks also do not chase brass so the semi auto option might look pretty good.

For those that reload, it will come down to willingness to buy brass or an occasional batch of factory ammo.

The only brass I have bought in decades is 327 and 357 Max from Starline. Since I never lose brass at the range, I was ok with buying the brass. Being on the small side and being visually similar to 380s and 9mms, 30 SC brass will be easy to lose at most shooting ranges. Since 30 SC popularity is unlikely to make range pickup brass a reliable source, buying brass or ammo either in very large quantities and/or periodically sounds like a given. For now, this keeps the new round as a "not now" thing for me. Many 327 reloaders are much less reluctant to buy brass than I am and are usually "32 nuts". As such they will be much more likely to be "very interested" as soon as guns start showing up.

[dverna]

Just checked.

Starline has no .327 Mag brass and not accepting backorders. .32 H&R brass is out of stock, but they are taking backorders.

No 9mm brass either and no backorders. But I can find lots of it if I needed it. I am too cheap to order new 9mm brass and I doubt they sell much of it because many folks are like me...CHEAP!

[FergusonTO35]

It is. But most people buying one would be better off with a 270. Actual target shooters excepted. The Average Joe would be better off with something else.

Having owned both, I like the 6.5 alot better. I would only pick the .270 if I was actually planning to use it for elk size game, as .270 is the minimum caliber permitted here.

[Drydock]

Hmmmm. (Opens drawer, pulls out the M1898 Rast & Gasser he used the day before to pot armidillos out on the farm). Ah yes.

[FergusonTO35]

The new .30 cartridge looks really neat, but I think the most hopeful outcome here is that it will find a small but stable niche like the .22 TCM or 5.7x28. It might see a bit of police use, as did the .357 Sig and .45 GAP, but I doubt any agencies will keep it for the long run.

[376Steyr]

A couple of 30 Super Carry advertisements, excuse me, well-researched and totally unbiased articles from NRA Shooting Illustrated:

About the cartridge, with some info on planned ammunition offerings: https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...ry-ammunition/

and some slobbering over the Nighthawk 1911: https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...0-super-carry/

[Jtarm]

If we’re gonna do a new gun/cartridge, about something useful? Like legitimizing .41 Special in the L-frame & GP100?

[megasupermagnum]

If we’re gonna do a new gun/cartridge, about something useful? Like legitimizing .41 Special in the L-frame & GP100?

I think you forgot purple font.

[Bmi48219]

"Also I know I have a weak spot between my ears, but I would love to see a PC carbine chambered in this round.".

Maybe when the supply of surplus M-1 carbines dries up. To me this is another marketing ploy.
I’m figuring the new 30 rimless cartridge ammo will be a little pricier than 9 mm or s&w 40.

[sharps4590]

Spend enough on hype and it might survive, witness the 6.5 CM, but, I'm not very optimistic for this one. At least the 6.5 CM gave folks something they could believe they discovered....except that Europe discovered 6.5 caliber 125 years ago.

[Thundarstick]

Hi, my name is Thundarstick, and I'm a 32 nut!

I traded in my 327 S&W carry with 6 for a Sig 365 with 10. I just am not intrigued by this new one at all! How many rounds do you want in a civilian defensive carry gun, where you are responsible for where every bullet lands? I'm not seeing a bright future for this one.

[FergusonTO35]

50k pressure? That's centerfire rifle muzzle blast out of a handgun right there, no thx. I would also think it would be hard on the gun, especially one that was originally designed for 9x19 at 35k.