New .32 Rimless Cartridge

[35remington]

Given the minuscule popularity of 32 ACP, I rather doubt designing a rimless cartridge will make or break the popularity of the round in terms of not being able to use 32 ACP. Expecting a gun to function reliably with loads at less than half power is asking too much given the availability of an unpopular low power cartridge.

[Bigslug]

Has anybody found a velocity listing for the 115 grain CCI FMJ load?

That weight puts the sectional density on par with a 147 grain 9mm. The potential of THAT might be interesting to me; the 100 grain stuff they're putting the effort behind, not so much.

[Daekar]

I will be very interested to see what kind of performance we get out of this cartridge in a 16" to 18" barrel. Could be a real hoot.

[gpidaho]

The few places I found these pistols they were listed "out of stock" When I find one I'm buying one I'm a 32 fan I have 32 auto, 32 S&W, 32 H&R, 32-20 and a Tok Gp

[uscra112]

Well, I've read the entire thread, and all I can add is the old adage about how fishing lures are designed to catch fishermen, not fish.

[megasupermagnum]

I will be very interested to see what kind of performance we get out of this cartridge in a 16" to 18" barrel. Could be a real hoot.

Why? Why on earth would you rather have this than a 30 carbine, or a 327 federal, or even a good old 32-20?

[jblee10]

Hmm? How about an 8 shot K frame with moon clips? It would just be one more thing that is fun to play with.

[Outpost75]

Why? Why on earth would you rather have this than a 30 carbine, or a 327 federal, or even a good old 32-20?

I agree! Most versatile field gun I own is a .30 Carbine Ruger Blackhawk with barrel shortened to 5 and a quarter inches, which I can use with either .32-20 or .30 Carbine ammo. Much handier than the longer barrel and gives up very little in velocity. Can handle full snort Winchester 92 style loads in .32-20

[dverna]

It will fail.

What will case life be? And where will you get cases? No police departments will adopt it....how do you spell...DEAD DUCK?

Those of you salivating over this are advised to buy 3-4K cases when they become available. In 5 years, cases will be in short supply and expensive.

One question....what market niche does it fill? Works just as well as a 9mm...isn’t that wonderful? Well, I have five 9mm’s that use cheap brass. No need to buy something to replace them with something just as good but more expensive to shoot.

[megasupermagnum]

Hmm? How about an 8 shot K frame with moon clips? It would just be one more thing that is fun to play with.

If S&W made a K frame that held 8, and I'm not sure it could safely be done without a larger cylinder, but if they did, it would sell like hot cakes. This would bring up my earlier issue. In this K frame, the only logical choice would be 327 federal. Having the option to shoot 30 super carry in it would certainly sweeten the deal.

This is where tradition is against revolvers at the moment, as I said in the other "pendulum" thread. Such a beast could be built, but you are going to be taking a leap of faith. The old guys will shutter at the ugliness, and you will hear non-stop "solution looking for a problem". But if you actually built such a gun well, it would be a huge leap for firearm technology.

You do bring up a good point about moon clips, but it appears that Federal once again took a bad move by making the 30 super carry a tapered case. While the .3425" head MIGHT fit into a 32 chamber, it's probably best to assume it wont. If they had made it a straight wall, then they could have again opened the doors to having 327 federal revolvers made, that were cut for moon clips. They could have released a Ruger SP101 327FM/30SC, and it would be safe, with no risk of it being used in a 32 s&w long or 32 H&R accidentally. Well, if that drawing is the route they went, that door is shut.

As dverna says, it's not going to convince any 9mm shooters to buy one. They had every opportunity in the world to introduce this into the 32 world, and chose not to. The path they chose was to put a cartridge head to head with the most popular cartridge in the world, in a market saturated with pistols you can't tell apart, during an ammo shortage.

[cwtebay]

There is nothing wrong with newer, and no - newer does no equate to better.
I am trying to wrap my head around why anyone would have anything negative to say about a cartridge they haven't shot, haven't seen, haven't seen load data for, and don't even know anyone that has fired!!
WOW maybe give it a chance to at least be released! I wonder if fellas sat around in the early 1900's saying - that darn 9mm just is junk, never amount to anything, nowhere near what we already have with our 41 rimfire or 38 Colt. Or maybe a few years earlier - that darn new fangled revolver is just a passing fad, we'll be back to a single shot before you know it!
I am the absolute last person to be arguing this point with my predilection towards obscure cartridges (turned my nose up to the 350 Legend because I already have a couple 1907 Winnies that do exactly the same!) but what is wrong with something new? Something perhaps innovative with newer designs. Maybe it's not exactly in your dreams, but I applaud efforts towards better, or at least different. I am excited about it!!

Also remember - most "new and improved' lures aren't actually designed to catch more fish.....

[35remington]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T0a0IyyuHL0

Here along with the advertising spiel you can see it being shot. Appears no more blasty than 9mm given the audio effects.

[uscra112]

I visualize frantic marketing people telling top management that "we have to do something to keep our name and image in front of the consumers!!! We need a new-and-improved-something-or-other or we'll lose market share !!!!

You can guess the rest.

[Daekar]

Why? Why on earth would you rather have this than a 30 carbine, or a 327 federal, or even a good old 32-20?

If I wanted it in a semi auto that shared ammo with my carry gun? I don't have any centerfire semi auto pistols, but if I did this would be something that interested me, and I never met a PCC I didn't like.

I would much rather have a rimmed cartridge, but that's just me and my reloading preferences.

[Mk42gunner]

I also think the new S&W CSX would be the natural home for this cartridge, although I have never even seen either one.

Given the way carry guns have gone to striker fired or DA only, with very few DA/SA autos. I won't be holding my breath.

I also think it would have been better if the new round would safely fit in the new locked breech .380 pocket guns, but the 50,000 PSI being quoted doesn't make that seem very likely to me. Can you imagine a 14+1 Ruger LCP MAX that fits in your pocket?

Going head to head with a 9mm in the same sized guns does not seem like a winning proposition to me, but I have been wrong before.

Let's not forget that Federal also brought out the .32 H&R Magnum for basically the same purpose in the mid 1980's. It should have been marketed as an upgrade to the trail and kit guns in .22 and .32 S&W Long, instead of as an anti-personnel round.

We will see.

Robert

[ddixie884]

It will fail.

What will case life be? And where will you get cases? No police departments will adopt it....how do you spell...DEAD DUCK?

Those of you salivating over this are advised to buy 3-4K cases when they become available. In 5 years, cases will be in short supply and expensive.

One question....what market niche does it fill? Works just as well as a 9mm...isn’t that wonderful? Well, I have five 9mm’s that use cheap brass. No need to buy something to replace them with something just as good but more expensive to shoot.

I'm with you.........

[blue32]

Dang it, they are this close to it being fantastic. Make the head .338" like the rest of the 32's, and make the rim .358" like a 32 ACP, and you have a blockbuster cartridge.

As soon as I saw the specs I pulled out my manuals and thought the same thing. But a .312 bullet at ~1,200 fps sounds awfully familiar to an RCBS 32-98 SWC over 10 gr of 2400 in a 32-20. I just might get one because it looks like it could be a good cast candidate although I don't believe it will be commercially successful. In a pistol with a good trigger it could make a nice plinking gun. I'm wondering if it would work with the Dillon 32 auto shell holder and powder through expander die. Wouldn't be so bad if all I had to get was a sizer, seating, and crimping die aside from brass.

[Four-Sixty]

I think the 30SC has a couple things going for it.

1) Extra rounds in the compact arms. YouTubers are going to pitch this endlessly - they have a whole new cartridge to test and opine on (make videos about)
2) Federal already says it'll cost about the same as 9MM, yet it'll use less raw materials to fabricate. The 9MM ammo market is already saturated with many producers. Federal could be the only game in town for awhile. So, they'll have better pricing power and make better margins on it.
3) Can you say 40 Super Carry, 44 Super Carry, or 45 Super Carry? This is the land of $80,000 trucks with heated steering wheels that people only use to commute to work. Super Carry will just sound good to people.
4) Is there a potential for overseas markets where military calibers are not permitted? It's not a military caliber, but boasts the performance of one.
5) There is an opportunity to make 6 shot carry revolvers. Smith and Wesson, or Ruger could be exclusive on these as others might fear adopting the high pressure round.

Need has nothing to do with it.

[Lance Boyle]

Well, I've read the entire thread, and all I can add is the old adage about how fishing lures are designed to catch fishermen, not fish.

This is true. I view it like new cars, shuffling the chrome on what is already there. It is nothing as far as adding a jump in technology. It is a rearrangement, a different configuration is all.

As such that is a tall order to make it in competition with other stuff that lasts and lasts. 9mm, .45, .38, .357 etc. Look at the other flash in the pan cartridges.....41 AE, .357 Sig, .356 TSW, .45 GAP.

That said staying the heck away from the semi rimmed makes all the sense in the world. Sometimes we just get stuck perpetuating a bad idea, like the belt on belted magnums. The 7mm mag and .300 win mag are great cartridges but IMHO would have been better beltless and avoid the stress riser at the belt altogether.

That is not taking away from what cartridges with dead ended ideas can do.

I think the bonus for this new round is mostly the extra mag capacity for size that comes with it while still being on par with 9mm.

A pistol caliber carbine with this would be neat for sure.

[Lance Boyle]

I also think the new S&W CSX would be the natural home for this cartridge, although I have never even seen either one.

Given the way carry guns have gone to striker fired or DA only, with very few DA/SA autos. I won't be holding my breath.

I also think it would have been better if the new round would safely fit in the new locked breech .380 pocket guns, but the 50,000 PSI being quoted doesn't make that seem very likely to me. Can you imagine a 14+1 Ruger LCP MAX that fits in your pocket?

Going head to head with a 9mm in the same sized guns does not seem like a winning proposition to me, but I have been wrong before.

Let's not forget that Federal also brought out the .32 H&R Magnum for basically the same purpose in the mid 1980's. It should have been marketed as an upgrade to the trail and kit guns in .22 and .32 S&W Long, instead of as an anti-personnel round.

We will see.

Robert

Boy I wish that S&W made a nice .32 H&R 4” again. K frame or J frame. Good specimens are priced as collectibles now and I cannot justify one. I have shifted looking for a later model .32 Long hoping to find one at an unloved price.