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Thread: New .32 Rimless Cartridge

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    New .32 Rimless Cartridge

    Federal, the people who gave you the 9mm Rimmed, proudly present the new "30 Super Carry" cartridge: https://www.federalpremium.com/30supercarry.html

    .312 diameter, 100 grain JHP at an advertised 1250 fps. 12 of them will fit in the space that ten 9mm cartridges can occupy.

    Smith and Wesson will host the first guns for it: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...0-super-carry/

    Anybody want to take any bets that it will chamber and fire in the French 1935A? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistol...%C3%A8le_1935A
    Remember: Ammo will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no ammo.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Thumbcocker's Avatar
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    Will it chamber in a Peterson device?

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  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 376Steyr View Post
    Federal, the people who gave you the 9mm Rimmed, proudly present the new "30 Super Carry" cartridge: https://www.federalpremium.com/30supercarry.html

    .312 diameter, 100 grain JHP at an advertised 1250 fps. 12 of them will fit in the space that ten 9mm cartridges can occupy.


    https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...0-super-carry/

    Anybody want to take any bets that it will chamber and fire in the French 1935A? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistol...%C3%A8le_1935A
    At 50,000 psi the result will be similar to firing the 9mm Federal in an H&R Owl Head top break.
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  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumbcocker View Post
    Will it chamber in a Peterson device?

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    I thought the same thing about the Pederson device! As well as in 32 French Longue chambered pistols and SMG's.

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  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Can anyone find the cartridge dimensions? Is it rimless, or semi-rimmed like a 32acp? If it is semi-rimmed, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Anyone else rad about this and think "Modern 7.62x25 Tokarev?"

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnH View Post
    Anyone else rad about this and think "Modern 7.62x25 Tokarev?"
    Not even a little. A big bottle neck case that doesn't even fit in a 1911 vs a straight wall case that fits in sub-compact pistols with ease.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    0.312"x 0.754" case dimensions. (EDIT: 0.827" case length per Outposts patent drawing)
    Definitely less case capacity than the Tokarev (0.312'x0.984" and a bottle neck cartridge), possibly less than the 30 Pederson / 32 French Longue (0.309'x 0.776"). Possibly a very high velocity round (relative to size) and its potential for carry guns is incredible.
    I personally look forward to seeing this round in production and already placed an order for the Shield. Perhaps a flash in the pan, but dang it looks fun!


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    Last edited by cwtebay; 01-08-2022 at 08:16 AM.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Rimless, straight walled.

    I'm here for .32 H&R Magnum Rimless in a Glock, absolutely.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdaniel.mac View Post
    Rimless, straight walled.

    I'm here for .32 H&R Magnum Rimless in a Glock, absolutely.
    That's a real shame. That one small detail makes the difference between this being a standalone cartridge, basically a 9mm luger with an extra 2 in the magazine, where it could have been a 32 ACP super, fired in 327 federal revolvers.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 376Steyr View Post
    .312 diameter, 100 grain JHP at an advertised 1250 fps. 12 of them will fit in the space that ten 9mm cartridges can occupy.:
    My Sig P365 can hold 10 or 12 rounds depending on which magazine I use…. I prefer the 12 round mag since it gives a rest for the pinky finger. The current crop of micro 9mm’s will eat this new cartridge and it’s guns for breakfast.

    They are trying to market it as something special because it was developed for carry guns and not with law enforcement or military in mind. Of course they realize not a single law enforcement agency would have any interest in the round and any military would laugh at them if they tried and push it on them.

  12. #12
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    It looks like they may have fallen into the same trap that made the 327 less popular than it should have been. A huge percentage of 327 guns that are shot on a regular basis run loads closer to 32 H&R pressures than 327 pressures (mine certainly does). Muzzle blast above a certain threshold is a real turn off to most shooters.

    Given that they want to claim the round performs "as good as" "better" than existing rounds, they probably allowed for a very high chamber pressure and most likely a very high muzzle pressure. It is the high muzzle pressure that is generally responsible for most of the muzzle blast. Muzzle blast much more than the 9 mm will turn off many that would otherwise like the round.

    I have discussed the opportunity for a "32 Super" a number of times on a number of forums. If they want to avoid the problem of bad muzzle blast, the secret would be to use a fast powder to get a high chamber pressure with a muzzle pressure real close to the 9 mm. With the smaller powder charge and a muzzle pressure not much more than the 9 mm, the blast would be comparable. Then just let the performance fall where it falls. With good bullets, this would be very adequate. There is no need to be "as good as" or "better" than the 9 mm.
    Last edited by P Flados; 01-07-2022 at 11:51 PM.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdaniel.mac View Post
    Rimless, straight walled.

    I'm here for .32 H&R Magnum Rimless in a Glock, absolutely.
    I'm going to hold out for a 8-shot Ruger Blackhawk. A Super Blackhawk, with a squared trigger guard, that tips the scales at over 50 ounces.
    Last edited by 376Steyr; 01-08-2022 at 02:28 AM.
    Remember: Ammo will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no ammo.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by P Flados View Post
    It looks like they may have fallen into the same trap that made the 327 less popular than it should have been. A huge percentage of 327 guns that are shot on a regular basis run loads closer to 32 H&R pressures than 327 pressures (mine certainly does). Muzzle blast above a certain threshold is a real turn off to most shooters.

    Given that they want to claim the round performs "as good as" "better" than existing rounds, they probably allowed for a very high chamber pressure and most likely a very high muzzle pressure. It is the high muzzle pressure that is generally responsible for most of the muzzle blast. Muzzle blast much more than the 9 mm will turn off many that would otherwise like the round.

    I have discussed the opportunity for a "32 Super" a number of times on a number of forums. If they want to avoid the problem of bad muzzle blast, the secret would be to use a fast powder to get a high chamber pressure with a muzzle pressure real close to the 9 mm. With the smaller powder charge and a muzzle pressure not much more than the 9 mm, the blast would be comparable. Then just let the performance fall where it falls. With good bullets, this would be very adequate. There is no need to be "as good as" or "better" than the 9 mm.
    I don't think that is a fair assessment. I think the 327 became most of what it should be. It's still as much, and likely more popular now than ever. It would probably help if S&W actually gave it a real shot. I always felt that they should market the 32's more for the wide range of ammo. Just the common ones being 32 ACP, 32 S&W long, 32 h&r, and 327 federal, all in the same revolver. You can still get 32 s&w (short version) easy enough. If they had made this 30 super carry semi-rimmed, they could have added it to the long list. Can you imagine how cool it would be if they marketed a semi-auto pistol that could shoot both the intended 30 super carry, and 32 acp?

    None of these were ever destined to become super popular. I do wish more was done with them. I wish 327 federal was pushed more as a hunting round. The GP100 and Single 7 are certainly good hunting guns. Ruger is squandering the SP101 by not offering it more as a field model, the main problem being nobody has ever made a decent sized grip for it. Honestly for the average guy, the best is the LCR in 327 federal. It's a tiny little revolver, great for pocket carry, and in 327 gives you 6 shots. It's a small difference, yes, but 5 vs 6 shots? That's a big advantage.

    I disagree with the muzzle blast completely. 357 magnum is super popular. I can't tell any difference in muzzle blast between the 357 and 327. You state you would like to see a short cartridge with fast powder. Well it appears that's what the 30 super carry is. A short 32, running 50,000 psi. I'm willing to bet the muzzle blast is identical to any other magnum.

  15. #15
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    MSM, I hope you are right that the 30 Super Carry muzzle blast is not unreasonable.

    I know that some folks shoot full power 327 on a regular basis, but from my reading of forums posting, more do not. If 32 H&R and 32 long ammo were not available over the counter, much fewer (if any) 327 guns would be getting made. Yes the 327 really shines for the hand loader, but most sales are probably still to folks that just buy ammo.

    As far as the 357, I also rarely load it to full power. I just do not see the need. I have bigger guns that get used if I need more power instead of running the 357 at full tilt. A big reason for the 357 magnum gun popularity was the ability to shoot mostly 38s and reserve 357 for minimal use "when needed".

    Now in 357 Maximum, I run my IHMSA loads at full power. Yes there is substantial blast, but there is a real need for the load to be as hot as it is.

    With the 30 Super Carry being used in autoloaders, they will not be nearly as flexible as the 357 mag or the 327 Fed. As such, I worry that over the counter "practice ammo" will not be that much "milder" than the full power SD loads and both will get labelled as "not fun" to shoot. Again, I hope I am wrong.
    Last edited by P Flados; 01-08-2022 at 01:15 AM.

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    Can anyone find the cartridge dimensions? Is it rimless, or semi-rimmed like a 32acp? If it is semi-rimmed, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.
    Max. Cartridge drawing from the patent application. Rimless. Case length .827", Rim diameter .345, Base diameter .3425", case mouth diameter .337, Ctg. OAL 1.169. NOT same as 7.65x20 French.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	30 Super Carry.jpg 
Views:	60 
Size:	46.9 KB 
ID:	294212

    7.62x20 French Longue for comparison:

    https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/uploads/td...-en-page13.pdf
    Last edited by Outpost75; 01-08-2022 at 01:35 AM.
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  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by P Flados View Post
    MSM, I hope you are right that the 30 Super Carry muzzle blast is not unreasonable.

    I know that some folks shoot full power 327 on a regular basis, but from my reading of forums posting, more do not. If 32 H&R and 32 long ammo were not available over the counter, much fewer (if any) 327 guns would be getting made. Yes the 327 really shines for the hand loader, but most sales are probably still to folks that just buy ammo.

    As far as the 357, I also rarely load it to full power. I just do not see the need. I have bigger guns that get used if I need more power instead of running the 357 at full tilt. A big reason for the 357 magnum gun popularity was the ability to shoot mostly 38s and reserve 357 for minimal use "when needed".

    Now in 357 Maximum, I run my IHMSA loads at full power. Yes there is substantial blast, but there is a real need for the load to be as hot as it is.

    With the 30 Super Carry being used in autoloaders, they will not be nearly as flexible as the 357 mag or the 327 Fed. As such, I worry that over the counter "practice ammo" will not be that much "milder" than the full power SD loads and both will get labelled as "not fun" to shoot. Again, I hope I am wrong.
    The muzzle blast can't be any worse than the 357 magnum or 327 federal, I have no worries there. I just watched a video of a Federal guy shooting some American Eagle, which is supposed to be a 100gr at 1250 fps, likely the same exact 100gr SP used in 327 federal (AE load does about 1625 fps in a 5" barrel), and there was nothing remarkable about the noise or blast. No giant fireball, or boom.

    I'm not really sure a lower power round is all that necessary for this. Recoil should be about like 9mm luger, and most people shoot full power ball ammo in that. This is an area I think they had crazy potential though. A semi-auto pistol shooting more than one round is unheard of, besides a barrel/slide/magazine swap. If they had, assuming they didn't, made this 30 super carry a semi-rim, and could also shoot a 32 acp with no changes other than maybe a special magazine follower, they would really have something.

    It will never compete with the old guys like 9mm, 45 acp, etc. but if they made a semi-auto round that fits in a sub-compact, and adds 2 round capacity, plus can shoot 32 acp, and on top of that, all of them could be shot in a 327 federal revolver. Both are Federal rounds. It's a no brainer. I'm not sure how people feel about shooting a 32 acp in a long chamber, but being a semi-rim, I think it would work. 32 acp ammo is common enough, most stores have it. Having that capability would be HUGE.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Here we are in an environment where we cannot get even common brass to load and Federal comes out with a new round that even most well stocked gun retailers (if there are any) will probably hesitate to order while awaiting the guns to be available to fire it. Yes, Federal, explain to us again why you cannot deliver common, much sought after, ammo to us. GF

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    Max. Cartridge drawing from the patent application. Rimless. Case length .827", Rim diameter .345, Base diameter .3425", case mouth diameter .337, Ctg. OAL 1.169. NOT same as 7.65x20 French.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	30 Super Carry.jpg 
Views:	60 
Size:	46.9 KB 
ID:	294212

    7.62x20 French Longue for comparison:

    https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/uploads/td...-en-page13.pdf
    Dang it, they are this close to it being fantastic. Make the head .338" like the rest of the 32's, and make the rim .358" like a 32 ACP, and you have a blockbuster cartridge.

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwtebay View Post
    0.312"x 0.754" case dimensions....

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    Negative. Refer to drawing from patent application which I posted.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check