If you need a load for your components, PM me and I will help and reference where I got it.Originally Posted by Dieselhorses
MSM, I do not load buckshot or slugs. All my hunting loads are lead shot in 12, 20 and 28 ga. If you need some data, I will try to help. I have data for slugs and buckshot that might be useful too. If someone cannot use published data, you are correct. They better know what they are doing, buy factory, or stop shooting.
Don Verna
Longbow, this is exactly the kind of blowups that puzzles me. I believe it is the same thing that happens when people 'ring' the chambers of straight wall, large caliber black powder rifles, by using smokeless powder and a nitro card or similar to keep the powder up against the primer - thereby creating a free space between powder and boolit. At one point we had a lively discussion in the Cast Boolits forum on how to avoid the problem: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...r-under-powderMy guess is pressure spike caused by no cushion leg and obturated filled slug squeezing down from chamber diameter to bore diameter. Primer may have contributed to high pressure too.
Chances are something similar happened to you; an erratic ignition, maybe the primer only, pushed the slug forward, but not fast enough to overcome the forcing cone, and the slug stopped. A few milliseconds later the powder ignites completely, a pressure wave speeds forward and meet the stationary slug...
I had something similar happen when I bulged my Krieghoff barrel right at the start of the choke. I was shooting a slug loaded with a (too) light load of Steel powder. The report and recoil seemed normal. It was the very first shot of the batch and I always check the barrels before loading. Still, the bulge appeared, and I still believe it was a "bicycle pump" incident, caused by the slug momentarily stopping in the choke before the pressure wave caught up with it again.
On a more uplifting note; I'm working on another slug based on my previous sabot/sleeve design. More to follow...
Cap'n Morgan
I'll add that I loaded up a bunch of these short hulls and shot at least 5 through my Browning noting the punishing recoil and sticky extraction but not taking it as a warning as I should have!
As I said, my take is that the slug obturated to fill hull and/or chamber then met the forcing cone and had to squeeze down. I think the squeeze down caused the blowup by producing a pressure spike.
What I can say is that in the surviving bottom half of the chamber there were clearly defined lead streaks starting where the hull mouth had been all the way through forcing cone and into the bore.
I don't recall how short I cut the hulls but likely 2 1/4" to 2 1/2". The gun had 3" chamber. I eliminated the cushion leg and shortened the hull accordingly. The rest was to Lyman recipe with possible exception of primer but having said that all that was available locally IIRC was Winchester 209's which are "mild" primers.
I dont believe this acted similar to a wad pressed down on powder with an air space between wad and bullet because the slug obviously obturated to fill the chamber so it didn't start moving freely at low pressure then hit the forcing cone and paused. Pressure was already high as the slug left the hull.
I took the remaining loaded rounds out to shoot them through the single shot gun. It came apart with the first shot.
I wish I had kept that barrel or at least taken pics. Oh well!
Longbow
My ol' Dad taught me just about everything I know about Reloading. The ONE hard and fast rule on shotguns was; DON'T SUBSTITUTE !!!
Never had a problem with that, so I've never had a problem.
Did know a New Cowboy Shooter who figured the 5,000rds of ought-6 and .38Spl he'd loaded in the previous 10yrs made him an expert on everything. Blew up a Stoeger SxS and an old Win M24. You HAVE to follow the book recipe exactly.
I HATE auto-correct
Happiness is a Warm GUN & more ammo to shoot in it.
My Experience and My Opinion, are just that, Mine.
SASS #375 Life
Ok experts, I'll give you an easy one. Find a published load for a 1 1/2 oz buffered load in a 2 3/4" shell that you can still buy everything today.
Well, it's been over a year now. Guess it wasn't so easy then...
Just lurkin around, I'll be on my way.
Deplorable infidel
So close,but so far away.If only they still sold Grex filler! 12 gauge Win compression formed hull,1 1/2 oz shot,Win 209, Win 571- 30.5grs,WWA12R and 16.0 grs Grex filler. Forgot about 571, I give up...
Last edited by jim 44-40; 01-20-2023 at 08:55 PM.
There's also the problem that the Winchester compression formed hull hasn't existed for 10, maybe 15 years now. I'm sure we can all agree a Remington STS/Gunclub or a new Winchester AA hull is fine, but that is a substitution. I stand by my previous statement, or you have to be very resourceful at finding long discontinued vintage components.
Last edited by megasupermagnum; 01-20-2023 at 10:18 PM.
I'm aware of 1, not 2, only a single 2 3/4 1 1/2 oz buffered load listed that you can buy every component today. That is if you are willing to pay for primers. I think that load used Win 209's. I don't remember the load from the top of my head, but it uses a WAA12r wad, which Claybuster still makes a clone. Depending on how things continue, there might be more loads if Remington starts making wads again.
I own over a two dozen shotgun reloading manuals dating from the 1960's to almost new Tom Roster manuals. That just goes to show how difficult it is to find listed loads. When someone comes out and says there are "thousands of published loads, you are an idiot not to use them", you can be certain they have never loaded anything except dull as dirt basic 7/8 oz to 1 1/8 oz lead target loads.
I’m still green at shot shell loading. Started with 10 gauge Blackpowder loads the spring before last. Mega helped me pick out my load which worked great on a double bearded gobbler. I’m working up 10 gauge 3.5” modern turkey loads for my browning gold. I have the bpi number seven “magazine” I call it. Are you in that Hodgdon Data has ONE listing for the only one of two powers I own for shotgun. I have HS-6 and green dot. Think I need to get some more powders! Also does anybody have any listings or whereabouts I can find more 10 gauge loads. Doesn’t really seem like there’s a lot of 10 gauge loads out there. I can find a bunch of old-school trap and light loads but not a lot of 2oz or heavier ones I would like for turkeys and predators. Kind of confusing since most say not to deviate. I made the mistake of loading up Winchester hulls with 209a federal primers using Chedite hull and another “weaker” primer data. It was basically three grains over a Winchester hull using a federal primer. I can tell you it had quite a bit more noticeable recoil than a factory load…and also patterned like a SOB! It was 39 grains of HS-6 and 2oz of #6 nickel plated shot. Federal with a fed 209a suggested 36 grains. I was debating on pulling them since I still have about eight left. But other than a good kick how do I tell if they’re overpressured or not? Extracted just fine and it didn’t pop a primer like I would guess it would on a rifle. I did load some up the other day with 36 grains. The patterns weren’t that great and the recoil felt weak compared to factory loads. Any help would be appreciated since I’m still learning with shotgun stuff, thanks guys!
I figured as blood trail said I’m probably safe other than it’s probably on the higher end of the pressure limits. Seems like 10 gauge loads using HS-6 in 2oz is all over the board…from 36 to 40 grains depending on the hull and primer choice.
Last edited by Tripplebeards; 01-29-2023 at 11:54 PM.
Fellers... I recon we need 8 gauges !
"Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.
Now you’re talking dirty! How about a 2 and a 4 gauge!!!
Well...here's a try at folding my once fired hulls today by hand and with my lee 3.5" vintage loader. I had an 8 point plastic starter I pushed them down with first. Since I watched a guy try and use a lee load all 2 crimp his 10 gauge hulls on YouTube I tried and failed. Crimped the hull pretty good. I smoothed it back out with my finger and started over. I pushed down again with my plastic lee crimp starter and then finished off my vintage lee set. They sure aren’t pretty!!! I only tried 2 hulls loaded the same with 36 grains of hs-6 and 2 oz of #5's again. I used a x10x and sp10 wad. They seemed to be perfect height. I loaded both in my gold 10 three timed and cycled manually. They fed and ejected smoothly! Apparently my gold doesn't mind the fugly crimps! I'll test and see it they pattern better or worse that the same load I made with roll crimp and OS card.
I even tried using my roll crimper afterwards to make the crimp "more round" but no luck.
The one in the back is the the one I crumpled. It still feeds and cycles perfectly.
I will to get my hands on some buffer next.
Last edited by Tripplebeards; 01-30-2023 at 09:10 PM.
I drool every time I see that BFG-1, the 4 gauge pump action. Using ten 45 caliber round ball as buckshot? I want that.
Yeah, I was in artillery in the Army. I know what you mean.
Deplorable infidel
For shortened shells I only use fiber wads and roll crimp with reduced powder charges from published data. Not looking for maximum performance anyway.
Always use the correct wad for the type of hull you are loading . I have substituted primers but try to stay with something in the same brisance range as the suggested primer or just use it if I have them. Check with Ballistic Products for load books that have other than the light target loads mentioned above. They do have specialty books for 16 gauge and I'm pretty sure they have one for 10 gauge that have heavy loads. They might even have one for Varmint type loads. I'm with dverna on shotgun loads, I seldom trust shotgun loads that are not developed in a lab with the proper test equipment. Compared to rifle or handgun loads shotgun loads are very low pressure even at max loads so it does not take much to get in a pressure range that can damage the gun and yourself. Not worth the risk to me.
Grumpy Old Man With A Gun....... Do Not Touch !!
I couldn't take it anymore looking at the crappy fold crimps I made. Pulled both and cut ome of the hulls to short. I'll save the shorty for black powder 10 gauge 2 7/8" loading.
At least I have one pretty one vs 2 junkyard dog loads.
Guess I will hold off on loading anymore till I find another powder option along with some more hulls and other wads besides the sp10s
Last edited by Tripplebeards; 02-04-2023 at 05:08 PM.
I tried two 3oz hand loads with the 10 gauge along with copper plated #5’s in my browning gold the other day. Got the load off of YouTube. The guy got his data from Hal at TSS. Said it was a low pressure load around 9,000 pressure. I tried two different wads. A BPD-10 and mega metal. The load I used is 45 grains of Lil gun. I had a black code Turkey Turkey tube in my gun. My guess is it needs a less constricted tube. I might load a couple again and try the factory modified,full, and xfull turkey factory browning tubes. I didn’t get much more pellet count at 40 yards vs my 12 gauges One and 7/8 and one and three-quarter ounce factory Remington 3 inch loads and also a pattern master tube in them. The 3oz did not kick very much. I would say it was noticeably less than a factory 2oz factory Winchester and federal turkey load that does pattern better at 40 yards than my hand load with that same code black tube.
10 gauge patterns with a code black turkey tube. I’d like to know where the other 500+ pellets went to? Probably the five or six turkeys that would’ve been standing around the one I shot? The pattern blew out pretty good with the .695 code black turkey tube. Guessing closer to a .720 or so constriction might keep the pattern from blowing out?
And here are my two 12 gauge berettas with swapping out the 12 gauge pattern master code black tube on both of them…
I think the cheap tote wad choke patterned better last year
Last edited by Tripplebeards; 03-01-2023 at 10:27 AM.
Brother you are burning money. An old 20 ga with a full choke and 1 oz #6 shot will do better than those targets. 3 oz of shot?
"My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
Leonard Ravenhill
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