Alloy for 35 rem and black bear?

[7.62Man]

Hi All,

I recently found a nice marlin 336 CS in 35 rem that followed me home Too bad budda got a hold of it and chopped the buttstock short. So while I wait for the new stock to come in from cabelas I want to work on loading up some rounds for it. I plan on doing a black bear hunt in Manitoba this spring and am told a 300-500lbs bear is not that uncommon. I normally use my 444marlin and some nice hard cast 330 grainers. But I want to try somthing new, I have purchased the Ranch dog 190 grain and the RCBS 35-200-FP.

I know the RD cast out of water dropped WW will work fine as expanion is not needed for a quick kill (wide meplat).

What alloy do you all cast your RCBS 35-200-FP out of? Do you use a pure lead nose and WW water dropped? The round will be sitting on top of 38 grains of H335 for around 2100 or so I hope.

Thanks
7.62man

[mainiac]

Ive been shooting the 35 rem alot with the rcbs200. In the 20 inch barrell,your 38 gr load h335 will be quite a bit lower than 2100 f.p.s. 38 grs will just barely do 2000 in my gun,which is about as fast as i can load it with accuracy. I last tried it with 10-1 ww babbit alloy,with water dropping. This alloy is pretty tough,but i still cant get 2100 f.p.s. without the gun shooting shotgun patterns. Aint killed nothing with cast with it yet,so I cant tell you about hunting bears.

[S.R.Custom]

If the guides tell you that a 500 pounder is more than just a possibility, take the .444; the .35 Remington is a deer rifle.

[Bret4207]

I don't know, I grew up in bear country and 3-500 lb blackies were pretty common back when the dumps were still running. Biggest one I ever saw shot was close to 500 and was killed with 38 Special RN. I think a 35 cal boolit, cast from WW, at close to 2000fps will do the job. Placement is the key. Old lady down the road killed several bear going after her sheep each year with either a 25-20 or 38-40. A guy I fished with carried an old Colt in 38-40 and killed several bears with it. I don't know, but I'd feel fine with a 35 Rem.

[S.R.Custom]

...A guy I fished with carried an old Colt in 38-40 and killed several bears with it. I don't know, but I'd feel fine with a 35 Rem.

Indeed, the annals of bear hunting history are full of tales of derring-do, but I don't think these are the well-fed furry dump pigs of your childhood. (I could be wrong, of course, as I'm intimately familiar with bear country here in the Northern Rockies, and the bruins here haven't been rendered soft and timid by socialized medicine and progressive representation in the legislature. But I digress...)

This is a spring hunt, so the possibility of running into a hungry sow with cubs is very real, and while they're illegal to hunt, you do run the risk of having to plant one anyway for no other reason than to keep her claws out of that favorite Filson. I make it a matter of personal policy when venturing into the woods to take a weapon large enough to handily dispatch the largest creature I'm likely to run across, and if I'm bear hunting in Canada, a Pennsylvania woodlot rifle wouldn't be my first choice.

But to put my personal biases aside for a moment... if you're dead-set (heh) on taking the .35 Remmie, I wouldn't screw around with hard cast bullets. Load up a proven expander, like the Sierra 200 grain roundnose, and push it as hard as you can. Keep adding that H335 until the extraction gets sticky, then back off 6%. Being jacketed, you'll be able to get that 2100 fps, and with a little better accuracy than minute-of-barn.

Remember... an adventure is a walk in the woods poorly planned.

[Glen]

38 grains of H335 pushes the RCBS 35-200-GC just over 2100 fps out of my Marlin 336 RC (it's a little slower out of the 336 SC). I would expect it to work pretty well on black bear (but then we have pretty small black bear here in WA state...).

[Lloyd Smale]

i agree. theres a big dammed differnce in hunting were bears go 200 lbs then where they are running 500 lbs. A 500lb bear isnt all that easy to put down. If it were me id put the .35 away and step up to a 444 or 4570.

[waksupi]

I did kill a black bear wit ha .358 Win this past fall. But! I used a 260 grain boolit. I don't know if I would depend on a 200 gr. getting deep enough through a layer of fat, tough hide, and hair, at an unexpected angle.

[GabbyM]

I would not heat treat straight WW metal. Would make bullets brittle enough to blow their nose off with up close shots. Rather add 3% tin to WW for a pseudo Lyman #2 alloy.
For heat treated bullets I do like many here and cut WW 50/50 with pure lead. Then I add 1 ½ % or less tin. Heat in a 400 degree oven for 30 minutes then water quench. When I had a RCBS 35-200-FN mold it made boolits just over 220 grains with 50/50 plus tin alloy.

I don't see where the 444 would have much advantage over the 35 Rem. Higher BC of the 35 caliber 220 grain bullets would put them even in energy pretty quick. Now a 45-70 with 405 grain flat nose going about 1750 fps would be a step up.

[7.62Man]

Will save the 35 remy for this fall and take the 444 with my 330 grain hard cast getting around 2075fps with a load of H335.

I hate the idea of using condom bullets but will check the local shop see if they have any 200 grain hornaby/speers in stock.

Thanks guys

[missionary5155]

Good morning
My simple philosophy of hunting is this.... If it can bite back I am gonna bite it the first with the biggest chomper I got. Not saying a .35 wont do it... But I know a 45-70 will and if I get the chance I am gonna poke a bear with 12 bore Round Ball at 1600 FPS. Take that Bruin !
God Bless you !

[Bret4207]

Indeed, the annals of bear hunting history are full of tales of derring-do, but I don't think these are the well-fed furry dump pigs of your childhood. (I could be wrong, of course, as I'm intimately familiar with bear country here in the Northern Rockies, and the bruins here haven't been rendered soft and timid by socialized medicine and progressive representation in the legislature. But I digress...)

My bad. I didn't realize black bears turned bullet proof once ya cross the Mississippi. I stand corrected, nothing less than a Super Magnum will do.

And the award for "Condescending Post of The Year" goes to.......

[S.R.Custom]

My bad. I didn't realize black bears turned bullet proof once ya cross the Mississippi. I stand corrected, nothing less than a Super Magnum will do. In fact, you're as good as dead now.

And the award for "Condescending Post of The Year" goes to.......

Actually, you're not too far from the truth. Like most large game, bears grow larger the farther north you go. And the northern third of Manitoba is in fact grizzly bear country.

As for being condescending, well, if what you're used to are semi-tame dump scroungers, then I suppose I might seem that way. But there's a reason why bears are classified as dangerous game... And there's no shortage of ********* around here who claim to have taken large blackies armed with with no more than a dull fork. And I suppose that's their right. But the truth of the matter is, hunting bear with anything less than a .308 class rifle is dangerous to the hunter, inhumane to the bear, and I for one am going to do my part to discourage such practices. And if that's condescending, then so be it, because I'm not changing tack just because you say you know someone who shot one with Pappy's old Colt.

[Throwback]

The largest bear I am aware of in Maine was 610 pounds in 1987. Most run significantly smaller than this. Here in my home state we have a time-honored history of using tiny guns for deer, moose and bruins. L. L. Bean himself was a proponent of the .25 Remington. I am not an advocate for this myself and just so you know where I stand - I like to use a Barnes TSX in my .35 Whelen when I feel like I need it. However, I have used the .35 Remington and seen its use on a number of occasions. It has always been known as an effective black bear rifle and it has not been my experience that the ones around here are all that difficult to kill.

I have no experience with cast bullets and micro groove rifling so I don't know what you will run into at the velocities you are seeking. The load you site however is a good one and it should be quite adequate, but don't expect it to kill like lightning if you eschew your .444. It is probably not going to happen.

In cut rifled tubes (Remington) and velocity of 2,000 fps I use an alloy of 9-1 WW to Lino for a BHN of 14 to 15. This performs well on deer and results are not dissimilar to jacketed.

[bobk]

SuperMag,
I've never understood the idea of trying to shoot game with the smallest gun that might get the job done, most of the time. Now some hunters' experiences might be limited to shooting animals that aren't going to damage you even if you do screw it up, but if facing dangerous game, why wouldn't I take the biggest gun I have? One of my favorites is a .375. Although I have a box of solids, and some 300 Partitions loaded up, my generic load is a 235 X-Bullet at about 2960. It feels a lot softer than the 300s, but I think it would work for anything I am likely to encounter. If I can use it well, then why would I want to use anything less when my skin is at stake? It shoots flat, too. The .375 doesn't fit into a lever gun, of course, but it's just an illustration. What 7.62Man usually uses seems like a very good choice. If I wanted to try something different, as he said, it would be something even more capable, not less. A .45-70 with the Gould bullet would be a bit better.

Hunting is a sport; it shouldn't be a stunt.

Bob K

[Larry Gibson]

Hell, I'm with Bret4207. Black bears, even large ones are not that hard to kill. 7.62 will no doubt be in a tree stand or some other kind of blind taking the bears over bait. I've killed 3 BBs, the largest was 350+ lbs. I killed that one with a 30-30 with 311041HP cast of WQ'd magnum shot at driven to 2100+ fps. The bear was tree'd and the bullet went through the chest and exited out the top of a shoulder. The two smaller 20+ lb BBs where also tree'd and they were killed with a Combat Commander .45 ACP (1850 gr JHP) and a .44 Special (429421 at 1050 ps. Hell, in my younger years the .35 Remington was touted as "bear medicine".

To answer the question. I would cast the RCBS 35-200-FN of WW/lead at 50/50 ration. Drive fast (probably have to clean barrel every 7 or so rounds to maintain accuracy. Come to think of it; that's the exact load I ill use in my .35 Remington. But then I've not been reading all the "bear attack" stories of late. But then I'm also the guy who will go to Africa and hunt Mbogo with a .375 H&H and feel perfectly armed.

Larry Gibson

[Bret4207]

Actually, you're not too far from the truth. Like most large game, bears grow larger the farther north you go. And the northern third of Manitoba is in fact grizzly bear country.

As for being condescending, well, if what you're used to are semi-tame dump scroungers, then I suppose I might seem that way. But there's a reason why bears are classified as dangerous game... And there's no shortage of ********* around here who claim to have taken large blackies armed with with no more than a dull fork. And I suppose that's their right. But the truth of the matter is, hunting bear with anything less than a .308 class rifle is dangerous to the hunter, inhumane to the bear, and I for one am going to do my part to discourage such practices. And if that's condescending, then so be it, because I'm not changing tack just because you say you know someone who shot one with Pappy's old Colt.

Well, if I was used to semi tame dump scroungers that might be one thing. But I wasn't talking about dump bears that Guido and Vinnie used to shoot when they came up from NYC. I was relaying my experiences as one who has lived most of his life in bear country. I was pointing out that black bears aren't that hard to kill. How much deader than dead do you need?

I do find your post rude and condescending, typical of the west coast "everything's bigger here, especially our ego's" mentality. The Manitoba guide no doubt mentioned 500 lb bears, that's good salesmanship. What's the average though? 220 lbs from what I can find. How many 500+ lbs bears are there? If he's in Grizzly country then it's a different story. Use 444, use a 45/70, use a cannon for all I care. I just find it odd that the black bear west of the Miss. suddenly becomes this ultra tough man eater incapable of being handled with anything less than a howitzer.

[45r]

I'm going to work up a load for my 215 grain mtn mold boolits and a 220 speer condom bullet load for my Marlin 35 Rem and have no worries about it hunting almost anything out there.A well placed shot with a 220 grain 35 cal boolit will work.You have fast follow up shot capability in a levergun but you usually don't need it with a 35 Rem when handloaded to full potential.Your shot will probably not be all that far away and the 35 Rem has a well deserved reputation as a quick killing gun.I really like my 35 rem because I can practice a lot without pounding my shoulder like a big-bore.

[bobk]

45r,
You are right, with a well placed shot it will work. This is the beauty of the big gun, though. It works when you shot wasn't so well placed, and that happens to the best of us. I'm not talking about a California neck shot, just a fringy shot at the edge of the kill zone. Ain't very dramatic.

Bob K

[home in oz]

What about wild pigs?

35 Remington a bit small for that?