Winchester Mod 70 bolt/firing pin issue

[Omega]

So I bought a used model 70 in 270, went to the range and zeroed it, fired fine. So, I then went to my land to hunt with it and low and behold, it would not go into safe, it was stuck on fire. I read and watched some YouTube videos and they said it was essential that the safety be placed in the center position before removing the bolt or this would happen. So I looked up the method to fix it (Youtube below)and after some heavy wrestling, I managed to rotate the safety back into the middle. Reinstalled the bolt and did a function test, all the way back, trigger and bolt locked, middle position the bolt unlocked but trigger still locked, then went to the fire position and once again it stuck forward, and of course it would fire.



So, that brings me to a few questions:

1. Does this bolt disassembly tool work on Remington bolts? Looks like it should work.


2. Anyone have an idea on what could be locking the safety into the fire position?

[cwtebay]

I'm slow sometimes - you have a Winchester Model 70 that will not go to the safe position? That should be a 3 position safety, so middle is safe. But you're looking into a Remington bolt disassembly tool, correct?

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[cwtebay]

My Model 70's that have "stuck" in position has been due to neglect. I just purchased one and disassembled the bolt, cleaned everything up, reassembled and no problems. However....I have a feeling that someone far better versed in this mechanism will be along shortly with either a spring issue, or perhaps a screw problem.
I'm going to stay tuned for that!

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[Omega]

I'm slow sometimes - you have a Winchester Model 70 that will not go to the safe position? That should be a 3 position safety, so middle is safe. But you're looking into a Remington bolt disassembly tool, correct?

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The middle is safe, in that it can't be fired, but the bolt can be pulled to the rear, and removed if needed. The rear position is also safe, in that it locks the bolt from lifting, and also can't be fired, I would guess the rear position is while you are moving through the woods and it keeps the bolt from being snagged, and opened. Mine is stuck in the fire position, at all times, until I manually cock the bolt (out of the rifle), but once I install and select fire again, it locks in that position. And yes, the tool would make it much easier to remove, and install, the firing pin from the bolt. BTW, when I did remove the firing pin, it appeared pretty clean, so I don't think crud is doing it.

[white eagle]

open the bolt again and put safety in the middle position
after you close the bolt, hopefully your rifle is empty
then dry fire gun open bolt and put in middle position
how familiar are you with the m 70?

[Nobade]

I get model 70s in regularly with this problem. The cam notch in the firing pin needs to be fit properly. No big deal for someone familiar with how they work, if you're not I suggest a visit to your local gunsmith. If not done correctly you won't have a safety, it will fire when you take it off safe. Don't go there.

[Omega]

open the bolt again and put safety in the middle position
after you close the bolt, hopefully your rifle is empty
then dry fire gun open bolt and put in middle position
how familiar are you with the m 70?

I believe I tried that, but will again and see if it works. I am familiar with the operation of the rifle, but not so much the inner workings. I had a model 70 for years, and never recall the safety issue, but then again the internet hadn't been invented yet, and it never happened to me with that rifle.

[cwtebay]

I get model 70s in regularly with this problem. The cam notch in the firing pin needs to be fit properly. No big deal for someone familiar with how they work, if you're not I suggest a visit to your local gunsmith. If not done correctly you won't have a safety, it will fire when you take it off safe. Don't go there.

Can you please show me on this where you mean? How does it get jacked up?

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[Nobade]

The firing pin, part #16, has a cam notch cut into the right side of it that the safety lever, part #37, engages. That cut has to be the correct shape to allow the safety lever to cam the firing pin back at least .030" and hold it there. And it has to allow the lever to engage with minimal force. If you take the bolt apart you'll see where the factory hand grinds that notch when they fit the rifle together. Over time either from wear or just because it wasn't done exactly right originally, you get what you are experiencing. Fixing it requires removal of a tiny bit of material to allow proper operation. If it worked once, it's extremely close so it won't take much. Study how the two parts interact with the spring removed and you'll see what needs to happen. Only test it with the spring in place though, because it will behave differently than it does without. Be careful and go slow. Polish the engagement surfaces when you are done, and lube them with some grease to reduce wear.

[cwtebay]

The firing pin, part #16, has a cam notch cut into the right side of it that the safety lever, part #37, engages. That cut has to be the correct shape to allow the safety lever to cam the firing pin back at least .030" and hold it there. And it has to allow the lever to engage with minimal force. If you take the bolt apart you'll see where the factory hand grinds that notch when they fit the rifle together. Over time either from wear or just because it wasn't done exactly right originally, you get what you are experiencing. Fixing it requires removal of a tiny bit of material to allow proper operation. If it worked once, it's extremely close so it won't take much. Study how the two parts interact with the spring removed and you'll see what needs to happen. Only test it with the spring in place though, because it will behave differently than it does without. Be careful and go slow. Polish the engagement surfaces when you are done, and lube them with some grease to reduce wear.

Interesting, thank you.

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[Omega]

The firing pin, part #16, has a cam notch cut into the right side of it that the safety lever, part #37, engages. That cut has to be the correct shape to allow the safety lever to cam the firing pin back at least .030" and hold it there. And it has to allow the lever to engage with minimal force. If you take the bolt apart you'll see where the factory hand grinds that notch when they fit the rifle together. Over time either from wear or just because it wasn't done exactly right originally, you get what you are experiencing. Fixing it requires removal of a tiny bit of material to allow proper operation. If it worked once, it's extremely close so it won't take much. Study how the two parts interact with the spring removed and you'll see what needs to happen. Only test it with the spring in place though, because it will behave differently than it does without. Be careful and go slow. Polish the engagement surfaces when you are done, and lube them with some grease to reduce wear.

I take it that you need to remove the spring to remove the firing pin to get to the notch?

[Nobade]

I take it that you need to remove the spring to remove the firing pin to get to the notch?

Yes. A piece of steel plate maybe 3/32" thick or so with a slot just a little wider than the firing pin and a knife edge on it can be held in a vise, inserted through the spring, and used to relieve the pressure while you remove the two little retainers. Be careful, it's easy to launch parts across the room.

[Gtek]

Nobade is all over this one ^^^^^. Also I would recommend being very careful when getting C-clip out/off and if you remove safety body from shroud. Those little Pre-FN Winchester parts don't grow on trees anymore, finding them is more of a challenge than paying the silly money when you do.

[white eagle]

Is this a new model?
I have owned m70's for years
most all my rifles are m70's will not own a Remington
anyway there have been issues with new model 70's
my last one a Super Grade had a firing pin in it that was to short for the rifle
a 30-06 that would not fire all the time, each time so after a thorough look through
I replaced the firing pin and not works like a charm
I also had it rebored to 35 Whelen but that's another story

[Omega]

Yes. A piece of steel plate maybe 3/32" thick or so with a slot just a little wider than the firing pin and a knife edge on it can be held in a vise, inserted through the spring, and used to relieve the pressure while you remove the two little retainers. Be careful, it's easy to launch parts across the room.

Yea, I seen someone made a tool like that, which gave me the idea to modify an old spark plug gauge disk for the that purpose.