Lyman #2

[Toolmaker TN]

I got a good deal on 100# of #2 alloy. I've used this in the past, always with excellent results.
My question is concerning hunting use.
I'm thinking that the alloy might be a little too hard for hunting, and the 5% tin is a little wasteful.
The calibers I'm thinking of using it in would be .250-3000, 6.5X55, 7X57, .30-30, .308, .358Win, .35 Whelen, .375 Win, .38-55, and .45-70.
My current hunting alloy is 50/50 COWW/pure, water dropped.
Would it be a good idea to use 50/50 #2/pure? Some other mix?
Open to any helpful comments and suggestions.

[Larry Gibson]

I got a good deal on 100# of #2 alloy. I've used this in the past, always with excellent results........Would it be a good idea to use 50/50 #2/pure? ......

That would be an excellent idea

[Winger Ed.]

Sounds good for the rifles if they're running along in the mid teens.
I wouldn't use it pure/100% until I was pushing the limits of cast in the rifles.
If ya want better expansion with the hard stuff, that may be the perfect reason to get hollow point molds.

For 900-1,000 fps handguns, I'd add it sparingly into pure Lead until it makes a good flow and fill out.

[Toolmaker TN]

That would be an excellent idea

Would you think that water dropping might be beneficial? Or just air cooled?

Not looking to set any land speed records here with any of the cartridges I mentioned. Under or slightly over 2000fps for 250-3000 to ,35 Whelen. Less for the larger calibers.

[Toolmaker TN]

Sounds good for the rifles if they're running along in the mid teens.
I wouldn't use it pure/100% until I was pushing the limits of cast in the rifles.
If ya want better expansion with the hard stuff, that may be the perfect reason to get hollow point molds.

For 900-1,000 fps handguns, I'd add it sparingly into pure Lead until it makes a good flow and fill out.

I'm not looking to be setting any land speed records with any of these, mid-teens to 2000fps out of up to .35 cal. Low to mid-teens in .375 and up.

I'm loading it full strength in the .22 cals and .25-222 Copperhead, testing for groups. Might put around 25% pure in with it at some point, see how that does. I have WW loads for small game but want to open the throttle a little for varmints.

I've had great luck with COWW/pure in handguns. Think I might try 75% pure / 25% #2 at some point and see how it goes.

[Winger Ed.]

I've had great luck with COWW/pure in handguns. Think I might try 75% pure / 25% #2 at some point and see how it goes.

At normal cast handgun speeds, I'd think that mix will do a real good job for ya.

[ChristopherO]

Decades ago, when I first got into casting, Lyman #2 was the go to alloy, so I tried it on reactive targets and one coyote. It did the job, but I too prefer something a bit softer when actually hunting game animals. Smart thinking of you to add it as an additional mix component to obtain what you want to achieve.

[OFFSHORE]

30:1 - COWW/pure + 1 lb. pewter for ALL handgun ammo. 30:1 - COWW + 1 lb. pewter for rifle ammo. This has worked very well for me and I'm primarily a hunter with added plinking for fun and to keep my edge!!! Don't waist that #2, just add to it as needed. Good luck.

[Toolmaker TN]

Decades ago, when I first got into casting, Lyman #2 was the go to alloy, so I tried it on reactive targets and one coyote. It did the job, but I too prefer something a bit softer when actually hunting game animals. Smart thinking of you to add it as an additional mix component to obtain what you want to achieve.

Yes, I remember back when I started, it was the standard that everything was judged against. I did use some, until I discovered WW. That was the be-all and end-all for me for a couple of decades. Didn't hunt with cast in rifles or handguns, because everyone told me it wouldn't work. At the same time, I hunted with PRB in a muzzleloader. Seems dumb when I think back on it now, light just didn't come on for some reason.
The problem I'm having is that WW are becoming very hard to get here, so I'm looking into some alternatives. I wouldn't have ordinarily considered #2, except I got offered some. At $1/lb., I really couldn't pass it up, so I bought the whole #100.
If things work out, I know I can get #2 and pure through Rotometals. That will solve my supply issue for the foreseeable future.
I'm slowly phasing all my hunting into using cast. I've always made sure to have at least one mold for every caliber. I've been pouring through this site, it's the greatest accumulation of solid information I've ever seen. Truely eye-opening.
My goal is to be able to use an alloy that will cleanly harvest the game I'm after. I believe that the animals we hunt deserve our best efforts at a quick kill, and I want to make sure that what I'm going to use will be up to the task.

[Toolmaker TN]

30:1 - COWW/pure + 1 lb. pewter for ALL handgun ammo. 30:1 - COWW + 1 lb. pewter for rifle ammo. This has worked very well for me and I'm primarily a hunter with added plinking for fun and to keep my edge!!! Don't waist that #2, just add to it as needed. Good luck.

Offshore, forgive me for being a little dense, but not sure what you mean by 30:1
Pewter? That's interesting. What's the advantage to adding pewter?

[Larry Gibson]

Would you think that water dropping might be beneficial? Or just air cooled?

Not looking to set any land speed records here with any of the cartridges I mentioned. Under or slightly over 2000fps for 250-3000 to ,35 Whelen. Less for the larger calibers.

Air cooled will be sufficient for most all loads up through 2000 fps in the cartridges mention, especially those 1800 fps or less. If a "harder" bullet is needed, then WQ out of the mould. Air cooled the bullets should have a BHN of 11- 13. WQ'd the BHN should run 18 - 20.

I prefer #2 alloy for my CBA match bullets but like to use a 95/2.5/2.5 alloy for most of my other cast bullets excluding hunting bullets. That 95/2.5/2.5 alloy is very close to what older COWW alloy was....back in the day. That's the alloy I started casting with back then and haven't found a better general purpose alloy since.

[Toolmaker TN]

Air cooled will be sufficient for most all loads up through 2000 fps in the cartridges mention, especially those 1800 fps or less. If a "harder" bullet is needed, then WQ out of the mould. Air cooled the bullets should have a BHN of 11- 13. WQ'd the BHN should run 18 - 20.

I prefer #2 alloy for my CBA match bullets but like to use a 95/2.5/2.5 alloy for most of my other cast bullets excluding hunting bullets. That 95/2.5/2.5 alloy is very close to what older COWW alloy was....back in the day. That's the alloy I started casting with back then and haven't found a better general purpose alloy since.

Thank you for the input, I really appreciate it. I believe you can never stop learning, especially from the knowledgeable people on this site.
I have used WW almost exclusively since I started casting in the mid 80's. However, they seem to be getting more and more difficult to find. So, I am looking into other alloys.
I'm also working toward the use of cast exclusively for hunting. All this time I never used it to hunt with, the light just never came on, I guess. After reading hundreds of threads here, I've come to the realization that nearly 100% of the shots I've ever taken on game animals could have been taken with cast. I'm not into the long-range game, on animals anyway. I try to get as close as I can and make sure of my shot.
I'm intrigued with the statement you made concerning using 95/2.5/2.5 on just about anything, excluding game. Would this alloy not work well for hunting use? If not, what would you recommend?

[PWS]

FWIW, GT Bullets sells 96/2/2 alloy for a decent price (these days!)

https://www.gtbullets.com/index.php?...&keyword=Ingot

[Larry Gibson]

.......I'm intrigued with the statement you made concerning using 95/2.5/2.5 on just about anything, excluding game. Would this alloy not work well for hunting use? If not, what would you recommend?

Yes, that alloy works well for hunting but, in my opinion, are others that give better terminal performance.

Let me explain, but first let me say this is my preference and I've no disagreement with others' opinions on the matter. If I'm going to kill an animal, either vermin or for the table, I want that animal to die as quickly as possible. This for several reasons. I don't want the animal to take any longer to die any more painfully than possible. I don't want the animal to travel far after I shoot it as it may be lost entirely (I lost a deer once to my chagrin) or may be shot again by another hunter and claimed. Thus, I like to use the most terminally effective bullets even if a bit more meat is damaged.

And expanding bullet will, most often, kill an animal quicker because it does more terminal damage than a non expanding bullet. That includes non expanding hard cast bullets with a wide meplat. So, having killed a lot of animals with various alloyed and nose shaped cast bullets over the last 60 years I've come to prefer bullets that expand cast of a binary alloy in handgun or rifle bullets that don't exceed 1600 fps. That binary alloy may be a 40-1, 30-1 20-1 or 16-1 depending on the velocity and whether or not the bullet is GC'd. However, #2 alloy is a ternary alloy which means it is a bit more "brittle" than a binary alloy. That is why ternary alloys are most useful at higher velocities. We can soften the ternary allow by adding more lead and/or tin but it is still not as ductile as a binary alloy and will not expand as well.

Some expound on the "penetration" of the hard cast bullet but, truthfully, unless you're doing Texas heart shots how much "penetration is actually needed? Over the years on deer, pigs and elk I've had through and through penetration 99% of the time using soft cast HP bullets.

What would I recommend? If you try these mixes just remember you might need to adjust them +/- adding more #2 or adding more lead to get the best results but w/o a lot of testing these will be close enough. For magnum level handgun loads pushing 1400+ fps I would recommend using a GC'd bullet and mixing the #2 alloy with 80 +/- % lead. That mix works pretty good for revolver loads under 850 fps. With PB'd cast bullets at magnum level velocities the #2/50% alloy lead should be fine but don't expect much expansion.

For rifle velocities of 1700 to 2200 fps I use AC'd cast bullets cast of a 97/1.5/1.5 ternary alloy. These are soft bullets that are GC'd and lubed with a soft NRA 50/50 lube or with 2500+. I usually push them with medium or slower burning powders, depending on the cartridge, into the 1900 - 2200 fps range. I also HP them [7mm - 375 caliber] with a Forster 1/8" HP tool 3/16" deep after loading if a HP mould is not used. Expansion is very good down to 1400 fps impact velocity. Accuracy is also very good for the first 5 - 8 shots out of a clean barrel as that softer alloy will foul the bore at such velocities. When working up the load I clean the barrel after each test group. If not, the subsequent groups will be two to three times as large. When hunting the rifle has a clean bore or maybe one "fouler" through it. I figure if I've not killed the game in the first 5 to 8 shots I might as well go home and clean the rifle anyway......

The exception to the above is with loads, handgun or rifle I intend on shooting grouse, chucker, quail or ptarmigan for the camp pot with, I use a hard cast RN bullet if I can. Birds are not wrapped too tight and that bullet through the body drops them right there. Also, you can eat up to and including the hole.....

[Toolmaker TN]

Thank you, Larry. Again, I really appreciate your input.
I realize the list of cartridges I gave is a pretty broad spectrum, and I'm not going to be using a load or alloy in any of them until I've done a sufficient amount of testing to convince myself that I'm getting the best results possible. Probably work with one or two at a time.
Most of my use of cast has been for low velocity rounds in rifles for practice. In pistols, I've pretty much used cast exclusively. I've done enough dabbling in trying to push the velocity limits in rifles to have really opened my eyes as to the potential. I'm starting to see, however, that all that velocity isn't needed to hunt with. Most of the shots I will get around here are <100yards. 150 would be a stretch. Cast should be more than effective at those distances.
You've got me thinking now about the binary alloys. I have a quantity of 16:1, which I can try as is, or cut with pure to make something else. Especially in the larger calibers: .38-55, .375 (which I load at high-speed .38-55 levels), and .45-70. I have PB and GC molds for those. I may start with those first. I would really like to take a deer next year with my Ruger #1 .45-70 or my High Wall .38-55 (after I reline the barrel, it's a little tired after 133 years).
All my other rifle molds are GC, so I'm going to take your advice on the 97/1.5/1.5. I might start with 95/2.5/2.5, and cut it back as I go. Time and testing will tell.
I have become a firm believer in the use of medium/slow powders, seems like I get much better results. I do use some shotgun and fast rifle powders for practice/plinking loads, but I've gotten better results at higher velocities with 4895, 4831, 4350. A few years back, I looked at all the threads on here about duplex loads with ultra-slow powders. I worked up loads with several rifles, and the velocity and accuracy results I got were amazing. The amount of information and experience on this site is unlike anything I've ever seen.
A couple of other questions, if I may.
You mention Lyman #2 as being a bit brittle. Would this be a good thing in the varmint calibers (.221 fireball, .223 Ackley, .22-250, .25-222 Copperhead)? I'm thinking brittle at higher impact velocities might be a good thing? Or am I off in that thinking?
Also, I've been doing some reading on here about the cast soft nose. Interesting, and made me remember an old article by Ross Seyfried on doing just that. I even pulled his old article out of my files. Have you tried these, and if so, could you give me your opinion on them?

[Toolmaker TN]

FWIW, GT Bullets sells 96/2/2 alloy for a decent price (these days!)

https://www.gtbullets.com/index.php?...&keyword=Ingot

Thank you, I will check them out. I usually buy from Rotometals, but it's good to have options.

[white eagle]

casting soft nosed boolits is a lot of work but is a interesting endeavor
there are other ways to get the same results
I have and will most always use binary alloys for hunting because of some of the very points
Larry has kindly laid out mainly because I want to match the alloy to the game I am after
which is mainly thin skinned game like whitetail and black bear

[Larry Gibson]

"You mention Lyman #2 as being a bit brittle. Would this be a good thing in the varmint calibers (.221 fireball, .223 Ackley, .22-250, .25-222 Copperhead)? I'm thinking brittle at higher impact velocities might be a good thing? Or am I off in that thinking?"

Not "off" at all. However, the size of the 'vermin" will be the deciding factor. I shot a lot of small [ very small actually] ground squirrels. That live and act like miniature prairie dogs. I had both solid and HP'd 225415s at the time i shot out of Hornets, 222 Rems and 223 rems a 2400 - 2500 fps. I used a lot of #2 alloy with those. I also used COWW alloy, the older stuff with more tin in it. On the smaller ground "picket pin" squirrels I never could tell much difference between the HP'd bullets and the solids. However, with larger "red diggers" [a ground red squirrel that liven up in high timer meadows], rock shucks and jack rabbits the HP'd bullets definitely killed a lot better and left larger exit wounds when they exited. Most of the shooting was under 100 yards with a 200 yarder being a rare shot taken.

As white eagle mentions, casting soft points can be a lot of work and can be interesting if you enjoy that sort of thing. I found getting set up correctly to do it and the amount of rejects wasn't good for casting a lot of such bullets. Granted, a lot of such bullets aren't needed for hunting, but I found just using the softer alloy and keeping the barrel clean gave as good terminal results. That's just me though. You might try casting the soft nose bullets and get your own answer. Some like to do it and are successful.

[gc45]

I LIKE #2 - Having lots of it, it makes great hunting bullets for my 40 and 45 cal rifles but I don't use it much in handguns if just punching paper.