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Thread: Primer issues - What could possibly cause this?

  1. #21
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    "I tumbled it (brass) with the primers still in." Chemicals in tne tumbling media damaged the primers.

    Slow firing pin velocity is anotner common cause. More so in cold weather.

  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 243winxb View Post
    "I tumbled it (brass) with the primers still in." Chemicals in tne tumbling media damaged the primers.

    Slow firing pin velocity is anotner common cause. More so in cold weather.
    I think (hope?) he meant he tumbled cases clean before decapping....that is how I do it anyway.
    Don Verna


  3. #23
    Boolit Master Baltimoreed's Avatar
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    Primers need to be seated to the bottom of the pocket or else the firing pin will seat them all the way but not ignite them. A too light of a strike. But then the second firing pin strike ignites them. As to the worn old lee autoprimes, you can build up the pin that the lever rides on with a piece of round brass made from a case. Give you more height on the ram.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    I had the same problem when I switched to Ruske (Tula) primers.
    I was reloading on a progressive with no adjustment for primer seating depth, so I put a shim under where the priming pin hit the press frame.
    Affectively, setting the primer seater on the "crush" setting, and put a hand priming tool in my range bag.
    When I got a dud, I put on a heavy glove, put my hand around a corner, and reseated the dud primer.
    Always 100% sucess.
    A primer seated into a dirty primer pocket can give a false feeling that it has seated but only has made contact with the crud in the pocket.
    Upon firing, that primer is only pushed thru that crud and actually seated, and a second strike usually sets it off.

    I have since switched to wet/pin tumbling of cases with the primer removed and that changed the game for primer seating.
    jmo,
    .
    Last edited by Kenstone; 01-04-2022 at 02:23 PM.
    Size/Prime a few cases when starting off with a progressive and put them aside. You can plug them back into the process when a bad/odd case screws up in the priming station and continue loading.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    I think (hope?) he meant he tumbled cases clean before decapping....that is how I do it anyway.
    Ty for the correction.

    Yes, i misread it. (Read - primed empty brass.)

    Case length? 9mm headspaces on the case mouth. Minimum case length for 9mm Luger is .744"

    If chamber is maximun @ .776" may cause misfires? A head clearance of .032" would not be good.

  6. #26
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    I think (hope?) he meant he tumbled cases clean before decapping....that is how I do it anyway.
    Me too. I don't need to clean,swage, "reform" any primer pockets and it keeps my press a little cleaner. Over a period of several years I tried three different hand primer makes. None worked for me. Perhaps my hands are different, but I would have to reset the tool in my hand after every squeeze. With a older Lee, a new Hornady, a new Lee, a Lyman (?) and one of unknown mfg. They just didn't fit my hands well enough to get consistent seating. Usually went back to a ram prime or the stock priming on my single stage presses (I even used a Lee Loader, priming base, with an arbor press, slow but positive). The priming system on my Co-Ax is OK, but the shell holder is difficult.
    Last edited by mdi; 01-05-2022 at 01:46 PM.
    My Anchor is holding fast!

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    clean primer pockets and seat below case head.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenstone View Post
    I had the same problem when I switched to Ruske primers.
    I was reloading on a progressive with no adjustment for primer seating depth, so I put a shim under where the priming pin hit the press frame.
    Affectively, setting the primer seater on the "crush" setting, and put a hand priming tool in my range bag.
    When I got a dud, I put on a heavy glove, put my hand around a corner, and reseated the dud primer.
    Always 100% sucess.
    A primer seated into a dirty primer pocket can give a false feeling that it has seated but only has made contact with the crud in the pocket.
    Upon firing, that primer is only pushed thru that crud and actually seated, and a second strike usually sets it off.

    I have since switched to wet/pin tumbling of cases with the primer removed and that changed the game for primer seating.
    jmo,
    .
    I wonder if the primers are short.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    "I wonder if the primers are short."

    I think they were Tula, bought during the Obama shortage, long gone now.
    They could have been short like Federals tend to be.
    Don't know,
    good wonder though.
    Last edited by Kenstone; 01-04-2022 at 02:09 PM.
    Size/Prime a few cases when starting off with a progressive and put them aside. You can plug them back into the process when a bad/odd case screws up in the priming station and continue loading.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master



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    And clean the striker and firing pin ways
    Also clean the extractor and the hole it sits in.
    Yes, I know you have already done that, what
    lube did you use during reassembly?

    Cold outside? Tried warming the gun with the car heater vent?

    Mike
    NRA Benefactor 2004 USAF RET 1971-95

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimB.. View Post
    You should spend some time the duds. Put a straight edge across them to see if the primer is proud. Compare the firing pin indentation to a round that fired. When you pull the round apart does the primer have an anvil?
    I put a straight edge on every one. None proud. All could see daylight between the primer and the straight edge.

    Firing pin indentation on the duds looked solid. Not indicative of a light primer strike. I pulled every dud. None were missing the anvil. The primer compound looked new and present as well. Is there anything you can discern visually from inspecting the dud primer compound?

  12. #32
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7Acres View Post
    I put a straight edge on every one. None proud. All could see daylight between the primer and the straight edge.

    Firing pin indentation on the duds looked solid. Not indicative of a light primer strike. I pulled every dud. None were missing the anvil. The primer compound looked new and present as well. Is there anything you can discern visually from inspecting the dud primer compound?
    OP:
    I have skimmed thru your other posts in this thread and could not find any mention of the BRAND of primers you are working with.
    Why is that?
    So, what's the BRAND?
    If you have mentioned the brand before, nevermind.
    .
    Size/Prime a few cases when starting off with a progressive and put them aside. You can plug them back into the process when a bad/odd case screws up in the priming station and continue loading.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenstone View Post
    OP:
    I have skimmed thru your other posts in this thread and could not find any mention of the BRAND of primers you are working with.
    Why is that?
    So, what's the BRAND?
    If you have mentioned the brand before, nevermind.
    .
    Brand: TulAmmo KVB-9E Small Pistol Primers, Lead Free non-corrosive
    Manufacture Date: Jan 2012

    And someone earlier wondered if I tumbled after seating the new primer... Lol, no. This brass was all tumbled a few years earlier in my Lortone rotary tumbler with SS pins.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7Acres View Post
    Brand: TulAmmo KVB-9E Small Pistol Primers, Lead Free non-corrosive
    Manufacture Date: Jan 2012
    Thanks for the info,
    BINGO
    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post5328543
    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post5328286

    You might want to measure the cup length of a used primer and compare it to another brand of primer.
    I'm thinking you will find the Tula to be shorter.

    Or look up the cup length here:
    https://saami.org/
    .
    Last edited by Kenstone; 01-04-2022 at 02:24 PM.
    Size/Prime a few cases when starting off with a progressive and put them aside. You can plug them back into the process when a bad/odd case screws up in the priming station and continue loading.

  15. #35
    Boolit Buddy Driver man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7Acres View Post
    Brand: TulAmmo KVB-9E Small Pistol Primers, Lead Free non-corrosive
    Manufacture Date: Jan 2012

    And someone earlier wondered if I tumbled after seating the new primer... Lol, no. This brass was all tumbled a few years earlier in my Lortone rotary tumbler with SS pins.
    I use these same primers and they all seat below the case . I make sure to seat by feel. The primers are very reliable and I have no failures with them. When seating the primer the anvil has to crush the compound to activate it.
    The Bird of Time has but a little way
    To fly-and Lo! the bird is on the wing

  16. #36
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenstone View Post
    Thanks for the info,
    BINGO
    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post5328543
    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post5328286

    You might want to measure the cup length of a used primer and compare it to another brand of primer.
    I'm thinking you will find the Tula to be shorter.

    Or look up the cup length here:
    https://saami.org/
    .
    Sure enough. I measured against what I have on hand. Some Remington SRPs.

    TulAmmo: 2.85mm or 7/64"
    Remington SRP: 3.1mm or 1/8"

    Looks like my TulAmmo is shorter than SAAMI's spec...
    Click image for larger version. 

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  17. #37
    Boolit Buddy
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    So I load on a Lee 4 hole turrets press. Every primer is seated by hand for me too. On my last 50 I loaded with extreme attention to seat depth. To seat the primers I grabbed the back of the press and put my body into pushing the ram arm. Then I whacked the ram with moderate force 6 additional times before letting the press rotate to the next die. I did this to all 50 and still had 3 duds. My point was to way overdo it. If I had any failures there's nothing more I can do to get the primers as deeply seated as I'll ever be able to get with my setup.

    That being said, when I load my Remington SRPs instead, same press dies brass and all they go in nice and deep without manhandling it at all (and no failure to fire). You can visually see the Remington's seated deeply with no fuss no muss. And the Remingtons are physically a little taller to boot! I don't get it.

  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7Acres View Post
    So I load on a Lee 4 hole turrets press. Every primer is seated by hand for me too. On my last 50 I loaded with extreme attention to seat depth. To seat the primers I grabbed the back of the press and put my body into pushing the ram arm. Then I whacked the ram with moderate force 6 additional times before letting the press rotate to the next die. I did this to all 50 and still had 3 duds. My point was to way overdo it. If I had any failures there's nothing more I can do to get the primers as deeply seated as I'll ever be able to get with my setup.

    That being said, when I load my Remington SRPs instead, same press dies brass and all they go in nice and deep without manhandling it at all (and no failure to fire). You can visually see the Remington's seated deeply with no fuss no muss. And the Remingtons are physically a little taller to boot! I don't get it.
    Good info

    More on Tula primers

    Back when Tula primers were all you could find/buy, lots of people had problems with them on all types of equipment.
    My fix was to add a shim where the priming pin contacted the frame of my piggyback press, and in fact, that shim is still on my press.

    I recall those using the LNL AP got no fix by adding that shim and further traced the primer's not fully seating to the spring around the primer pin becoming coil bound before completely seating those Tula primers.
    With that in mind, I've looked at the priming arm on the Lee Turet and thought the spring under the primer cup could also be coil binding and giving you that feel of a primer fully seating.

    I suggest you look at that spring, if you can see it, when seating a primer and see if it is coil binding/limiting the travel of the primer pin.
    If it is coil binding, look for a way to remove that spring and shorten it by 1or 2 coils.
    If you cannot shorten the spring, you could shorten the primer cup instead, either would allow the pin further travel upward towards the primer.
    Sorry for the ramble, just a wag on my part,
    .
    Size/Prime a few cases when starting off with a progressive and put them aside. You can plug them back into the process when a bad/odd case screws up in the priming station and continue loading.

  19. #39
    Boolit Master
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    7Acres primers:
    Brand:
    TulAmmo KVB-9E Small Pistol Primers, Lead Free non-corrosive
    Manufacture Date: Jan 2012

    >>> 10 year old LEAD FREE primers - they're runnin' out of shelf life! <<<
    GONRA hopes ya'll can save some primed cases or loaded rounds
    (more the better!) for INTERESTNG shelf life studies!!!

    Shoot some more in 5 years, 10 years, etc.....

    We're all spoiled by the modern lead styphnate / tetrazene primers.
    RWS Sinoxid patent(s).
    Stored reasonably well, they'll last longer than most of us will live....

    >>> Lead Free primers are NOT for SHTF storage.... <<<

  20. #40
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by GONRA View Post
    7Acres primers:
    Brand:
    TulAmmo KVB-9E Small Pistol Primers, Lead Free non-corrosive
    Manufacture Date: Jan 2012

    >>> 10 year old LEAD FREE primers - they're runnin' out of shelf life! <<<
    GONRA hopes ya'll can save some primed cases or loaded rounds
    (more the better!) for INTERESTNG shelf life studies!!!

    Shoot some more in 5 years, 10 years, etc.....

    We're all spoiled by the modern lead styphnate / tetrazene primers.
    RWS Sinoxid patent(s).
    Stored reasonably well, they'll last longer than most of us will live....

    >>> Lead Free primers are NOT for SHTF storage.... <<<
    Missed that, great observation! Agreed, would love to see a test of 100 every year for the next 10 years.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check