Fire in Colorado

[bedbugbilly]

Seeing the news this morning about the bad fire in Colorado and so many homes completely lost - I was just wondering if anybody knows if any of the members here got caught up in it? If there was, of course it might not be know yet . . but if there were any and you find out about it . . . I hope you'll let us know. Thanks.

[cwtebay]

I don't know of any members, but a client's son and family live (d) there. Their home and property is a complete loss. Unbelievable the amount of homes destroyed.

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[gpidaho]

Looking out my window at several inches of snow it's hard to believe that this could happen near Denver this time of year. Heart goes out to those affected. Gp

[scattershot]

We haven’t had any appreciable moisture here along the Front Range since August. Pretty dry here. Of course, the 115 mph winds didn’t help, either.

[Baltimoreed]

Very sad. We are going to have to build homes out of something less flammable and more storm resistant than stick built with plastic siding. I’ve researched monolithic dome homes and would love to do a 40 footer with an 8 foot stem wall but haven’t found a builder. Too old for a diy. They are the way to go. Fireproof, termite proof, hurricane proof and with a 8 ft stem wall your main living quarters are 8 ft plus off the ground.

[Minerat]

The grass fire ran down the open space areas in front of 60 to 80 mph winds catching housed that backed up to them on fire. Combined with wood siding and high density in a fairly new neighborhood they could not control it. As of yet no loss of human life reported and last I saw they estimate 560 homes and numerous businesses went up in smoke. A crying shame all caused by downed (arcing) powerlines, with our dry conditions, and high winds, it happened.

We are about 5 miles due south of the burn area but winds were blowing west to east so no threat here. My wind gauge recorded 55 mph max average 34 from 9:00 till 7:30 pm. Here is more info.

https://wildfiretoday.com/2021/12/31...ands-of-acres/

[rockrat]

Daughter lives about 5 miles East of the burn area and was headed home from our house and saw the plume of smoke when they were coming down out of the mountains on I-70.
Heard on the news that over 1000 homes were destroyed. Nothing but ashes left on many of them. Snowing there now.

[gwrench]

They now say that power lines did not cause the fire. I haven't heard any new ideas of what did cause it.

[bedbugbilly]

Thanks everybody. I sure hope that the elderly woman who got separated from her niece shows up. Between the tornados and this, certainly a lot of tragedy. I know it is early yet and everybody there is trying to get their bearings on all of this, but for those of you who live close - if there is a local place that is accepting donations to help those residents who have lost everything where a monetary donation will do the most good, could you maybe post it? So far, I haven't seen much in regards to that.

Let's all keep these families in our thoughts and prayers as well as those that are trying to pick up tiger caves again after the tornados. Thanks.

[Larry Gibson]

Going to see more and more of such from fires, tornados, floods etc. as the flood zones, "country" farms and ranches are being sold off in more and more subdivisions and ranchettes. Thus, people are living where those things most often happen. I'm old enough to remember when those things happened back in the day but were expected to happen. Now we can whine about "climate change" awhen the real problem is over population, i.e. "progress" and people living where they shouldn't and totally unprepared for what may occur there.

[MUSTANG]

Going to see more and more of such from fires, tornados, floods etc. as the flood zones, "country" farms and ranches are being sold off in more and more subdivisions and ranchettes. Thus, people are living where those things most often happen. I'm old enough to remember when those things happened back in the day but were expected to happen. Now we can whine about "climate change" awhen the real problem is over population, i.e. "progress" and people living where they shouldn't and totally unprepared for what may occur there.

I agree with all Larry stated. Additionally; we have Governments and "Organizations" that fight against prudent fuel controls. They do not want the Dead and Down Timber removed (Fire Hazard) because it will be used by some small and fuzzies that kids love in the cartoons. They do not want the grasslands mowed that are not being grazed to reduce fire hazards because "It's not Natural". Many times government will choose "Management Techniques" based off internal goals or political goals - not fire hazard control.


Attachment 293899

The above picture of an Aerial Fire Tanker fighting a Fire was Taken in the Warm Springs Moapa Nevada Area in 2010. Our house is about 600 yards on the other side of the flames and smoke the Aerial Tanker is suppressing. Winds that day were 30 to 80 miles per hour. The "Story Line" was modified by the various Government and Quasi Private/Government agencies (Southern Nevada Water Authority), but the truth is some contracted workers for the Southern Nevada Water Authority were burning brush out of old Irrigation ditches in 30 to 40 mile hour winds and the fires spread. The ditches were scheduled to be Filled and Graded to "Restore" the old Farm/Ranch land to it's supposed Natural State 100 years prior. Much of the property had been acquired by Southern Nevada Water authority with Federal Monies to ship the water to Las Vegas, and to Create a "Nature Preserve". They define what that means - including creating a habitat that never existed there historically for Bird Habitat the Nature Conservancy and other entity's wanted. They cut down over 5000 80 year old and older Palm Trees because they said they weren't "Native to the Area" - despite the Moapa Indain Tribes claims they had been there long before white man came to the area. Seems that SNWA had determined that the Palm trees "USED TOO MUCH WATER". We lost our Barn and Stables, Tractor, and..... in that fire even though we had prepared, for we had our area well cleared and I had developed a "Home Grown" Fire Hydrant system all along the Property perimeter and had fire hoses in case of fire. Our Property was in Bermuda Grass for pasture so it was not going to burn; but the 300 Bales of Hay stored at the Barn were set off by blowing embers from the Fire in the picture. The Power Company/Fire Department shut the power off to our house - so the well did not work - so my property Fire Suppression system could not be used and the Fire Department refused to put out the Hay when it began to smolder - they said the water tanker might be needed elsewhere; that decision only cost my insurance company $180,000.00 to replace the Barn/Tractor/and.... afterwards, I put an emergency generator in so I could power the well should this ever happen again.

Our fire in 2010 (and several subsequent ones in same area); seem to parallel what I observe in pictures from the Denver Fire. Lack of Fuel control efforts that lead to a large scale fire with damage to property and potentially death for residents. We need to push back against governments at all levels and demand that prudent Fuel Controls are utilized in Forest/Brush/Grassland areas adjacent to developed properties (and in our National Forests and Grass Lands as well).

I feel sorry for those who lost their homes and property in Denver; but I also recognize where the vastly increased risk is coming from - Governments and their misdirected goals and actions.

[lightman]

That is sad! Prayers offered for those affected.

[bedbugbilly]

I fully agree with Larry as well. Half of the bad fires could be minimized if they used prudent judgement in regards to keeping dead fall, brush, tall grass, etc. that only acts as fuel controlled. We aren't here in the summers in
AZ, but we know that last summer there was a lot of rain for our area. As you drive along 19 and other roads, the grasses/weeds are high in the medians as well as along the roads. It's nothing but "tinder". Obviously the county or AZDOT is not worried about it, but all it would take is a careless cigarette thrown out or a blown tire and a rim sparking to petit off. And like many places, plenty of such tinder behind many houses, etc. I know over ny Sonoita, I have seen them keep the grasses along the roads mowed in years past to prevent fire danger as if something got started, the grasslands will go with it. Around here . . . nobody seems to think about those things.

There is such a thing as forest management . . . heck . . . in centuries past, some Native American tribes did annual controlled burns to help their forest hunting grounds clear.

I feel bad for those who lost their homes . . . we all do . .. but we all know how this is going to be spun, just like the tornados . . . climate change and new green deal. I grew up on a farm and it was part of a yearly job to keep grasses cut down along the roads and field borders to help with fire control if something got started . . and in those days we had a lot of grass fires caused by some idiot throwing a cigarette out of their car windows. I was on the township fire department for many years and I have spent litterly weeks fighting swamp and muck fires that could ave been prevented had the land owner used a brush hog to keep weeds down . . . and many of them were farmers wo were their own worst enemies. They wouldn't keep the grasses cut and then they would turn around and burn feterlizer sacks in the field after loading their hoppers, the wind would come along and blow the into high grass and then was up to us to take care of their ignorance and laziness. I have seen wheat fields and corn fields burn just because the weeds weren't controlled around them . . . and one time, we actually had one of our tankers burn up because the wind changed so fast while we were fighting a large swamp fire that we couldn't get to it where the driver had parked it in what appeared to be a safe location.

Things happen and they are sometimes unavoidable, but we seem to live in and era ow where people lack common sense and want all the regulations to save nature and the climate, yet don't think twice about putting a home in the middle of a tinder box.

[FishinTodd]

having gone thru the alemeda fire in 2020 with no notice I feel for anyone that lost everything. Fires get moving thru a town you can have everything mowed beautiful lawn and fire is just consumes everything in its path, jumping city streets, highways nothing will stop an out of control fire. thats how the towns of talent and Phoenix oregon went up. The fire started in ashland and almost made it to medford.

[megasupermagnum]

Going to see more and more of such from fires, tornados, floods etc. as the flood zones, "country" farms and ranches are being sold off in more and more subdivisions and ranchettes. Thus, people are living where those things most often happen. I'm old enough to remember when those things happened back in the day but were expected to happen. Now we can whine about "climate change" awhen the real problem is over population, i.e. "progress" and people living where they shouldn't and totally unprepared for what may occur there.

It completely baffles my mind how most people live oblivious. I've almost always lived in areas with high rates of tornadoes. Yet you never see houses built with good tornado shelters. You see concrete wall closets and such, but are you really telling me a 4" concrete closet in the middle of a house is going to do anything against a strong tornado? The house I live in now has nothing. There's not even a real basement. It's half underground. Now part of that is to do with the flooding of the area. But if a tornado hits me, I'm done. You see all these giant multi-home complexes going up around the country with nothing. Apartments sometimes have provisions. Trailer houses are the worst, but at least every trailer park I ever saw had a real storm shelter, but you have to travel to get there.

You build a house in tornado alley, an underground shelter should be mandatory. Holes are cheap. Nothing is ever going to stop everything, but the blatant disregard for basic preparation in regards to the environment is baffling. You can travel from Oregon to Florida, and overall houses look the same, and that's just not right.

[Randy Bohannon]

In Lewis and Clark’s journals they described massive wildfires on the prairies and in the mountains during their journey. Other early explorers described the same ,CA used to rip 80-200,000 acres in a single fire . Logging the past 200 years has reduced the amount of fuel and roads are fire breaks most of the time.Gov. Policies now restrict what fuels can be removed and methods. LA county had large fleets of D-3 and D-5 Caterpillars set up to rip mesquite and sage and only allow low flame front grasses to prevail. All good forest and range practices have been reduced to non existent.BTW Native American Indians were responsible for many tremendous wildfires as described by John C Fremont and Jim Bridger.

[contender1]

"I feel sorry for those who lost their homes and property in Denver; but I also recognize where the vastly increased risk is coming from - Governments and their misdirected goals and actions."

^^^^ THIS ^^^^

It's a disease,, (government control) that infects almost every aspect of life. Not just in land management for fires.

Too many people with good hearted intentions do not understand the domino effect of their actions. Or,, they do,, but political reasons overrule them.

Prayers for the innocent,, !

[WRideout]

Where I grew up, in Southern California, all the flat land was converted into subdivisions in the fifties and sixties. After that, the only place to go was into the coast foothills, where the houses crowd up against the mesquite. Fire suppression has been the policy just about forever, so fuel builds up on the ground, since nothing rots in that dry climate. When it burns, propelled by the hot dry East Wind, it goes up like gasoline. Cedar shake shingles contribute to the fuel.

Same with flood plains. No one has lived there for more than a couple of years, so they aren't familiar with the pattern of flood and drought. When a housing tract built in a flood plain is flooded, there is an immediate cry for more flood control, usually meaning channelization and concrete lining. Local government is loathe to stop developers, when new property taxes are a main source of operating income.

Wayne

[Handloader109]

I do hate the whine. In central MS the land is fairly flat, but there are areas all over that flood. Builders put subdivisions in areas that not only can, but WILL flood. Just a matter of time. Has nothing to do with climate, just time. Even here in NW Arkansas, there are houses and businesses built in the most stupid areas that will be flooded. And while we don't have a lot of fires, it can happen, and I've got stupid people burning when the wind is 30 mph. idiots

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[atr]

My cabin up in the North Central Cascades barely survived this years Muckamuck Mt. fire, sparked by a lightning strike. It was the only cabin to survive and the forest is now a wasteland.
The only reason my place made it was because I had sided it with non-flammable John Hardy siding, cleared 40 yds around it, de-limbed up to 15ft all the trees at the 40 yd mark, removed all flammable material from around the cabin and removed the propane tanks to a safe distance. Even with that I consider myself lucky. Like the Colorado fire the intense wind was a major contributor.
atr