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Thread: Suggestions on first ML

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master

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    North of Ogden is Smith and Edwards. They care both real BP and caps. No idea if they have any in stock at this time though. Also do a search for the Free Mountain Trappers. They meet once a month in Ogden. They may be able to help you out.
    Aim small, miss small!

  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master


    GregLaROCHE's Avatar
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    I have a few friends with Pedersoli made flintlocks. They are very happy with them. I have an original antique flintlock and wondering when I buy my next gun, if I shouldn’t get a reproduction from them. Be sure to get a newer gun for your first one. Original ones could have wear problems that will make them more difficult to learn on. You will probably have to pay more than $1000, for a new one though. At least you do over here.

  3. #23
    Boolit Buddy
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    I happened to find out there are a couple of older gentleman who live east of me in Utah that have a long history of building historically accurate hawken style rifles as well as many other styles. I'm going to try to contact them and see if they can show me their rifles and around their shop!

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    Now , That would be a perfect move.
    Good luck on what you see.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master fastdadio's Avatar
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    Deplorable infidel

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    If I recall correctly, Hansen mentions in his book examining an original .62 Hawken with a very slow twist, something like 1-120” or similar, which was shot multiple times and found to like heavy charges, on the order of 150 grains FFg with a patched ball. Accuracy was along the lines of 4” or so at 200 yards.. His conclusion was that it could easily take the largest of Western plains game, to include elk, buffalo and grizz.

  7. #27
    Boolit Buddy

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    I have always thought that Thompson Center rifles were well made, reliable, and good value for money. I'm speaking here of the traditional line - I have no experience with the modern in-line stuff.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master gc45's Avatar
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    My first BB rifle was a 50 cal Hawken and a real jewel it was for elk out to 100 yds as I could get good groups to that distance and it hit pretty hard IMO- Later, I had this very nice 40 cal caplock made by Ted Fellows that was a great deer rifle out to 50 yds. Right now, I have a remington 700 in-line liking both it's accuracy and ease of use.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master

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    being from Utah and all, the OP might be lucky enough to stumble onto a Jonathan Browning Mountain Rifle
    ..

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerd View Post
    being from Utah and all, the OP might be lucky enough to stumble onto a Jonathan Browning Mountain Rifle
    ..
    I owned a JB .50 cal about 30 years ago and it was accurate as h@#$. It also liked patched ball better than slug.

  11. #31
    Boolit Buddy
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    I've not heard of those before, but sound nice. Browning always seems to turn out high quality rifles

  12. #32
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighUintas View Post
    Hi all,

    I'm pretty new to black powder. I've shot a few hundred rounds of it in my 45-90 this year. But, I've been interested in having a muzzleloader for awhile and hopefully can purchase one in 2022. I'm looking for some suggestions based on budget, quality, use, and what I'd like to shoot.

    I would prefer a flintlock due to the ease of self sufficiency in not having to make or buy percussion caps. I had wanted a hawken style pedersoli flintlock, but a gentleman I was talking to at the range said the locks on them are prone to breaking or not functioning properly without needing "tuned". Not sure which he was referring to.

    This is for general fun, as well as hunting primarily elk but also deer, out to 200 yards (maybe). So, I'm thinking I'd like a 54cal. I'd like to have a double set trigger, and hopefully something with a slightly faster twist so I have the option of shooting a conical or PRB. I'd also like to be able to put a peep or ladder type sight on since these shoot more like rainbows, and that would make a 200yd Target easier to aim on. My budget, hopefully, is about $1000. With those wishes, it's not looking like there's any traditional style that fits. I think the tang ladder peep would certainly be an add on anyway. The closest fit I could find is the pedersoli Jager hunter or Lyman great plains hunter, one being well over budget. But of course, the lock quality had been questioned by the gentleman I talked to.

    I looked into kits that are "in the white" to make my first kit build, or rather finishing, easier. I found TVM and Kibler kits, both of reported high quality. But they don't have the twist I'd be hoping for and Kibler doesn't offer a double set trigger in 54 cal. And I think both would be over budget.

    So.... Hmmmmm.

    Does anyone have any suggestions or am I just thinking of a fantasy muzzleloader? Could I be confident in the lock quality on the Lyman plains hunter or a pedersoli hawken flinter?
    i shoot alot of TC flintlocks.Flints are imported mostly so they are not readily available and if you can find them they have been limited to how many you can purchase for the past three years. If you have never shot a flinter be prepared for a LONG learning curve.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverMax View Post
    Have a TC flinter. A nice 50cal rifle but not my choice to tote afield. T/C's idea of a crescent stock on all Hawken models irregardless of caliber are punishing for its shooter. (54's are especially so.) Reduction in powder measure will reduce such overwhelming recoil but also the projectiles accuracy also.
    The crescent butt rifles are meant to be shot from the upper arm, above the bicep. One moves the elbow up or down to adjust for sighting picture. They are not meant to be shot from the shoulder.

  14. #34
    Boolit Buddy


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    Quote Originally Posted by HighUintas View Post
    Hi all,

    Does anyone have any suggestions or am I just thinking of a fantasy muzzleloader? Could I be confident in the lock quality on the Lyman plains hunter or a pedersoli hawken flinter?
    When it comes to flintlocks, you can't afford cheap.

    You can learn how to knap flint, the library is free and there are books on the subject that you can check out. Also look for YouTube videos.

    On rifles, look for a Kibler rifle kit. https://kiblerslongrifles.com/

  15. #35
    Boolit Master

    FLINTNFIRE's Avatar
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    There are kits from all over TOW TVM and others all can be had for different skill levels in putting together , and yes most of us are aware of how the crescent butts are meant to be shot , but heavy and large caliber still add up to recoil .

    Flints can still be purchased by the dozen at some places and yes they can be knapped , you can still find percussion caps here and there and musket caps also , prices are up supply is down .

    If you can inlet and cut dovetails , do threading and finish work you can save some money and have all American parts , Those Browning rifles were nice looking , saw a new in the box awhile ago on gunbroker , price was not bad .

    Most barrels are round ball twist , have not went shopping for parts in a few years , for a first gun Thompson Centers with the 1-48 twist sound closest to fitting the bill , add sight on tang if wanted .

  16. #36
    Boolit Buddy
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    I'm working on hand inletting a stock for my bolt gun right now! Boy is it slow.

    I've never cut dovetails into barrels for sights, but I bet I could do it. The key on this stuff is going as slow as needed to make sure it's correct and stopping before you screw up if it doesn't seem right. Books and the internet university are really helpful.

    I've been watching a guy build a long rifle step by step on rumble. It's from a plank, and the barrel wasn't dove tailed or anything and didn't have the vent drilled, so nearly from scratch, save for the parts being made. It's really helpful and interesting and has me confident I could build one the same way. It just might take me a long while to acquire all the necessary hand tools

  17. #37
    Boolit Master
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    If you want to try something Slow and Tedious , try shaping the butt stock on a ML for a brass Crescent buttplate.
    I am installing one on a stock right now that came with a flat buttplate.
    Lots of angles and you have to watch all sides as you progress or it will be out of line.
    This one isn't quite as hard as the one on my Blunderbuss that came half shaped and inletted for a extended comb tang.

  18. #38
    Boolit Buddy


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    You can swap out the cheap lock from low end ML rifles like CVA and Traditions with a quality lock from L&R lock company. This will get you reliable ignition.

    https://lr-rpl.com/index.php?option=...d=36&Itemid=62

    Traditions rifles have very good barrels, change out the lock and you will have a good rifle and keep costs down.

  19. #39
    Boolit Master
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    Swapping out parts for better parts is one thing I do when I buy used rifles cheaper.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGS View Post
    Swapping out parts for better parts is one thing I do when I buy used rifles cheaper.
    There are bargains to be had at pawnshops and swap meets. Especially in January as people spent their money on the holidays. Having cash allows negotiation of price.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check