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Thread: Rifled 870, full bore Mihec round balls.

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Rifled 870, full bore Mihec round balls.

    Thank you,Santa!

    This is my first ever rifled shotgun group. 50 meters, kneeled position. Full bore (.732") 555 grain round balls, I forgot to pay attention to sprue position.

    Gotta say,positive first impressions. I fired one ball @ 25 m, then moved to 50 for this group.



    This is only 1200 fps ,I'm proceeding slowly. Gun is old, well broken in, chipped stock laquer finish but very good metal parts...? Also came with a clean 26" railed hunting barrel. Rifled barrel is "new", there was quite a lot of lead and then rust under it... spent all night on it yesterday, I mailed the shop.



    My first hull did not extract,I got worried , the rest was no problems.

    Anyway, the lead/rust did not completely ruin the rifled barrel. It's just that I now KNOW the barrel was not new, I wanted a new rifled barrel to avoid this exact thing. Idiots shoot bare lead and shot and nails with these and never clean. Basic slug understanding is scarce around here where I live.

    Maybe I'll get my head cleared about this. Paper looks promising, my record 50 m slug group ever I think.

  2. #2
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    wow.... that is sooooo cool... perhaps I will have to "finally" get around to considering one. i have all the right parts in 870's. but alas, its too late for santa this year... Thank God there is a new year right around the corner.!!!! if I got a rifled barrel, I think I would have to get scope mount.

    tell us about the load your using with that RB.. Hull and stack?
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

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  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Very nice! That's good shooting and first time out too!

    Now for 100m!

    Longbow

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markopolo View Post

    Tell us about the load your using with that RB.. Hull and stack?
    This is my own concoction based on interpolating lots of this and that. Pressure = guessure until I get these tested. Vihtavuori gives no shotgun data,too many variables,they say.

    But here goes:

    A pre-primed B&P 3" hull. 3,0 grams Vihtavuori 3N38. A Thin gas seal. A thin nitro card. A taller gas seal. A cork. A 732" ball PC:d to .735". BHN 15.

    Roll crimped with considerable force to really pack them. I have seen low velocity spread, this same load is in use with my cylinder gun.

    Disclaimer etc...



  5. #5
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    That is one good looking roll crimp, and a VERY nice 50 meter group!

    Already looking forward to future reports.

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master


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    I'm getting my absolute best accuracy with round balls with the lower velocity loads. I'll list two below that are my favorites, both have taken deer, and both are very effective, leaving close to a 1" gaping hole all the way through. I'm not seeing much difference as far as destruction between these, and my full power Bluedot loads. You can substitute Federal gold medal and the new Federal top guns. You can also use a Fiocchi, but the weaker primers may require going up slightly in powder. I've tried these in a number of rifled shotguns, and they average about 1 1/2" at 50 yards in all of them, even with open sights. I do not know anything about Vhitavouri powders, besides I tried some N110 in handguns before. It looks llike N340 would be a good choice for this.

    Federal GM 2 3/4"
    Federal 209A
    18gr Unique
    X12X + (5) 1/8" nitro cards
    1cc scoop PSB buffer
    .735" ball, sprue up
    fold crimp

    1000 fps

    2 3/4" Federal topgun V3 (plastic base)
    Federal 209A
    20gr 800x
    X12X + (5) 1/8" nitro cards
    1cc scoop PSB buffer
    .735" ball, sprue up
    fold crimp

    velocity unknown, likely around 1000-1100 fps.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    MSM , thanks for sharing.

    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    I do not know anything about Vhitavouri powders, besides I tried some N110 in handguns before. It looks llike N340 would be a good choice for this.
    VV N340 is very common for shotgun. I use it for all my 20 gauge slugs. I have used it in 12 too but now I found some lead shot data for 3N38, up to 700 grains of shot. So I'm trying 3N38... it's known for 9mm major loads while keeping low pressure, similar to 3N37. N110 can be found in some heavy loads,too. These slow ones use up quite a lot of powder of course...

    But sprue! I just can't remember to observe sprue position, made ten more to go...

  8. #8
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    75 meters & bench today. I also loaded some Svarog Paradox slugs.





    1250 fps now:



    Five shots @ 75 meters. One flyer - I still didn't check the sprue position... And my front sight bead is white, holding white bead on white center is a bit tricky. Could be me,sprue,load...




    I also tried the Svarogs.



    Got no group at all:



    Must be the tailwads, they are for smoothbore,not rifled. Apparently. But I've got to see things to believe. I will cast some non-wad versions one day.


    Balls are obviously good. I'll try zeroing next - surprising trajectory, looks like balls from rifled barrel are not falling as quick as from smooth.

    A big bore rifle feel. Me likes!

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

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    Petander,
    Out to about 75 meters a round ball has a pretty decent trajectory. Once you start shooting at 100 meters and beyond you'll see that they fall like a rock!
    "We take a thousand moments for granted thinking there will be a thousand more to come. Each day, each breath, each beat of your heart is a gift. Live with love & joy, tomorrow is not promised to anyone......"

    unknown



    May the forest be with you....

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    I am curious though... why powder coat a round ball? other then they look very cool... does it serve any other function? reason I ask, when recovering lead in your berm, prolly smokes like heck when attempting to remelt. I do not powder coat anything, just for that reason. hard to find lead around here so I attempt to recycle everything.
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

    I will love the Lord with all my heart, all my soul, and all my mind.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markopolo View Post
    I am curious though... why powder coat a round ball? other then they look very cool... does it serve any other function?
    Same reasons as with any other projectile: lubing. My barrel gets no lead fouling. Plus you can fine tune projectile size, I just did by adding a second coat for another .002". Got 50 fps more velocity without changing anything else. Colour coding is another nice thing.

    Melting range scrap smells horrible anyway, I do it outside on a Coleman stove. Flux a lot with sawdust and then some. Then later, another flux on an electric stove where I mix and clean more, no smell at that point any more. Those ingots are Pro Melt Ready.

    Just occurred to me,I should empty my trap. Dirty but precious scrap.

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master

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    That's a good looking target at 75m!

    I'm surprised the Russian slugs didnt do better. Have you checked diameter?

    If diameter is okay I'd think those slugs should shoot fine in rifled gun with or without tailwad. The post shouldn't hurt without tailwad in rifled gun. Load 5 without tailwad and give them a go.

    Regardless, good shooting with the RB's!

    Longbow

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    That's a good looking target at 75m!

    I'm surprised the Russian slugs didnt do better. Have you checked diameter?
    They are "okay" in my cyl Benelli but maybe a bit small for the rifled Remington. I have not slugged Rem. I'm casting some non-wad Paradox right now. I will double coat them for 870.

    They need a separate thread. Or a very hard alloy to get the size up.

  14. #14
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    The rifled 870 I borrowed slugged at a tight 0.727" groove. I was a bit concerned about 0.735" RB's ( as cast size ~0.738") in that barrel but they shot very well and no signs of high pressure... Loads were well below max. but a tight squeeze.

    Not sure how consistent Remington rifled barrels are so it'll he interesting to see what size yours slugs at.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    The rifled 870 I borrowed slugged at a tight 0.727" groove. I was a bit concerned about 0.735" RB's ( as cast size ~0.738") in that barrel but they shot very well and no signs of high pressure... Loads were well below max. but a tight squeeze.

    Not sure how consistent Remington rifled barrels are so it'll he interesting to see what size yours slugs at.
    My balls are big,too.

    I'm bad at slugging. No separate soft lead pot... and my smallest pure lead chunk weighs at least 60 kilos.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petander View Post
    This is my own concoction based on interpolating lots of this and that. Pressure = guessure until I get these tested. Vihtavuori gives no shotgun data,too many variables,they say.

    But here goes:

    A pre-primed B&P 3" hull. 3,0 grams Vihtavuori 3N38. A Thin gas seal. A thin nitro card. A taller gas seal. A cork. A 732" ball PC:d to .735". BHN 15.

    Roll crimped with considerable force to really pack them. I have seen low velocity spread, this same load is in use with my cylinder gun.

    Disclaimer etc...


    3 grams seems like a whole lot of powder. Never seen or used that powder before.

  17. #17
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    Yes, the trajectory can be problematic if you are trying to extend the range of your shotgun, but not a big deal for an open sight gun. Using my ultra slug hunter, If I have those 1000 fps balls 3" high at 50 yards, they are about 5" low at 100. That's the only real reason I punish myself with bluedot in the scoped guns. My Tracker II is sighted in 2" high at 50 yards, and it's basically dead on at 75. At 100 they are very low, but I can't effectively shoot basic sights like that any farther.

    My bluedot loads are around 1300 fps, and I have my USH sighted 2 1/2" high at 50 yards, and it is about 2 1/2" low at 100 yards.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrayTech View Post
    3 grams seems like a whole lot of powder. Never seen or used that powder before.
    Yes it's a lot. Lower pressure peak, think Longshot. Except this burns even slower. Recoil is not "snappy" at all.

  19. #19
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    I hadn't even caught that. 3 grams = 46.3 grains. That's about what I'd expect to see from a higher end load of 2400, but I'd think then it would be faster than 1250 fps. The burn chart I see puts 3N38 a couple steps faster than Bluedot, but Bluedot you are only looking at 32-34 grains for a comparable load.

    Is 3N38 at all comparable to IMR 4227?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post

    Is 3N38 at all comparable to IMR 4227?
    Not really, 3N38 is a pistol powder, especially for 9mm major loads. No rifle data for it at all.

    I may change to 3N37 for more velocity. But not yet. I'm at a good point to compare RB alloys now.

    BPI has a 3" Longshot load for a 1 1/4 oz DGS @ 1650 fps. My ball weighs 1 1/2 oz.




    My cork wad (or is it fiber?) under the ball may not like much more oomph here:

    Last edited by Petander; 12-19-2021 at 06:03 AM. Reason: Add pix

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check