Anyone loading 38 Special and Red Dot?

[waco]

Good luck finding it these days...

Glad I still have around 13 pounds.

[ddixie884]

Has anyone ever loaded Jeff cooper's .38spl, 5gr RD load with a 160grswc? Chrono info? Quick Load?

[racepres]

Has anyone ever loaded Jeff cooper's 5gr RD load with a 160grswc? Chrono info? Quick Load?

Just a little while ago in fact..
Plain based ... 162gr SWC, 5.0gr R.D. gave 952fps from my 4" 357, "Pork Chop"
what little lead it left brushed out in one swipe.. I called it a success....tho Not up to the Unique nor 2400 Velocity.. about 75fps behind in fact... but...cleaner
My notes say that I should use a Checked Boolit for those faster loads in fact...
After all that... I usually stay with 158CSWC plain based, and 3.5gr R.D. ... it just works...
I use the 162's seated out and loaded to 38-40 for the one S.A., .357...

[ddixie884]

Thanx..........

[Geezer in NH]

Red Dot has been my powder for 38 spec. Since my first S&W Combat Masterpiece i bought used in 1973. I have red dot for my shotguns and never changed powder. Trap and upland hunting it has been all I needed.

[Texas by God]

3.5 grs of Red Dot and 158gr swaged hp hits right where I want at thirty feet.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[35 Rem]

Another fan of Red Dot here. My 1st reloading started in 1976 when my Father got me a MEC 500 JR i 12 gauge and the gun shop recommended Red Dot. Once I started loading metallic cartridges I found out how versatile Red Dot was especially with handgun loads. I presently have about 30 lbs of it. I use it in 38 Special, 44 Magnum and 45 Colt mostly nowdays.

The only thing I don't like about it is that it doesn't meter very will in a powder dropper. I use an RCBS Little Dandy for all my handgun powder dispensing and hold the dropper in my hand while working across the rows of cases in a loading block. Once I've filled them all I give them all a couple of inspections with a flash light to see the powder level. Out of 50 cases there will inevitably be 2 or 3 that have obvious lower charges. I dump them back into the hopper and recharge those cases.

[Mavrick]

I load my Colt Cobra with either 148 WC or 158SWC with 2.3-3.0 gr of Red Dot.
My .45 M1911 with 230gr RN, .45 Colt 3 1/2" SAA with 255gr SWC, and .44 Special 240gr SWC in a Ruger 4 5/8" Flattop are all used mostly with RD.
Many a charge of massed tin cans have been diverted with these loads!
have fun,
Gene

[jonp]

About 2.6grs under a Lee 358-148-wc in my Target Masterpiece is a tackdriver load. Glad I bought 4 Kegs of Promo at $100 each when it was easy to come by.

[racepres]

The only thing I don't like about it is that it doesn't meter very will in a powder dropper. .

@35 Rem
I also started in the mid '70's.. No Shotguns tho... I have had extremely good luck with the inexpensive Lee powder measure and flake powders..
Have tried a Lil Dandy... have a Redding, and one of those Hornady's that can use two different measuring "chambers".. always return to the old Lee when using flake powder... Note... Mine is certainly broken in...makes a difference!!

[Martin Luber]

Good bulk case fill with it, so yes. 45 lead swc too.

[jaysouth]

Another fan of Red Dot here. My 1st reloading started in 1976 when my Father got me a MEC 500 JR i 12 gauge and the gun shop recommended Red Dot. Once I started loading metallic cartridges I found out how versatile Red Dot was especially with handgun loads. I presently have about 30 lbs of it. I use it in 38 Special, 44 Magnum and 45 Colt mostly nowdays.

The only thing I don't like about it is that it doesn't meter very will in a powder dropper. I use an RCBS Little Dandy for all my handgun powder dispensing and hold the dropper in my hand while working across the rows of cases in a loading block. Once I've filled them all I give them all a couple of inspections with a flash light to see the powder level. Out of 50 cases there will inevitably be 2 or 3 that have obvious lower charges. I dump them back into the hopper and recharge those cases.

What rotors do you use for red dot in the Little Dandy?

[Larry Gibson]

38 SPL with Red Dot/158 Cast SWC Pressure Tests

Ddixie884 requested I pressure test the mentioned Jeff Cooper load of 5 gr Red Dot under a 158 SWC cast bullet in the 38 SPL cartridge. I said I would and looking at various load data sources we find no mention of a 5.0 gr load. Older Hercules data lists 4.2 gr as being a max load. Current Lyman CBHs don't list red Dot powder for use with that bullet. However, many others, myself included, have loaded 3.5 gr Red Dot under a 150-158 gr SWC for many years without any apparent pressure problems. Thus, I decided to test increments of 3.5 gr, 4.0 gr, 4.5 gr and 5.0 gr under the commercial hard cast 158 gr SWCs ddixie884 had provided. Pressure/velocity testing would be done with a 7.9” Contender barrel which was attached, via strain gauge, to an Oehler M43 PBL. I would also, pressure permitting, chronograph the 5.0 gr load in a 2 1/2” barreled M19 S&W 357 Magnum revolver.

Test load specifics for all increments of Red Dot;

Bullet; Commercial cast
Bullet Wgt; 158 gr
Bullet Style; SWC BB
Powder; Alliant Red Dot
Powder Wgt; 3.5 – 5.0 gr
Primer; Remington 1 ½
Case; Speer 38 SPL
OAL; 1.500”
Seating depth; .340”

Pressure is in “PSI” and velocity is in fps corrected to the muzzle.

Data listed as;

Charge of Red Dot
Velocity/SD/ES.......psi/SD/ES
Comments

Red Dot; 3.5 gr
919/18/51......17,100/900/3,300
This load is right at the SAAMI MAP for the 38 SPL. I have shot a lot of this load in years past. While it seems, an excellent load note how the SD's and ES's of both velocity and pressure get consistently lower. That indicates Red Dot is not igniting and burning as efficiently at lower pressures as it does at higher pressures. Probably not enough for concern for shorter range shooting as with a “snubbie” but for use in longer barrels at longer ranges the difference would come into play.

Red Dot; 4.0 gr
993/12/44......20,500/100/3,400
This load is right at the SAAMI MAP for the 38 SPL +P cartridge.

Red Dot; 4.5 gr
1072/12/37......25,600/600/1,700
This load jumps right up into low end 357 Magnum pressure ranges. Note the very low pressure ES and SD's compared to the 3.5 gr load.

Red Dot; 5.0 gr
1144/10/28.......26,800/300/1,000
Excellent SD's and ES's of both velocity and pressure. However, the pressure running this high would negate my own use of it, especially in an older small “snubbie” chambered in 38 SPL. A small “snubbie chambered in 357 magnum is another story though and such a load would be quite safe.

The S&W M19 K frame 2 1/2” barreled revolver chambered for the 357 Magnum.

The 5.0 gr Red Dot load fired in the M19 S&W with 2 1/2” barrel also gave excellent internals as evidenced by the small velocity SD and ES of 10/27 fps. The muzzle velocity proved to be exactly 1,000 fps.

[ddixie884]

Larry, I was sure the 5gr load was way over +P but I knew you would be testing it in .357 Magnum firearms and I was just wondering how high the pressure was. Uncle Jeff didn't use it for plinking and in the early M-60 he was using the bolt cuts would have been offset. I don't have an urgent need for this level of performance but if I did I would load a box and shoot 5 for effect and carry them for serious social encounters. Thanx again for doing these tests.

[Thumbcocker]

I have had excellent results with the Lee 125 rnfp and 4.0 of red dot / promo. Shoots to sights for me in model 10s.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Buck Shot]

That's some great info, Larry. Many thanks for doing the testing and making the results available to us.

I bought a keg of RD back in the 90s when I was shooting skeet twice a week, and now use it for 38 Spl. Works great, and -- unlike BE -- its smell reminds me of shooting skeet with my Dad when I was a teenager!

[35 Rem]

I use 4 grains Red Dot with the Lee 125 grain round nose flat point. That would be the Little Dandy #10 rotor. It's a very pleasant load to shoot but still busts water jugs nicely. This works well in both a Uberti Stallion 38 Special as well as a Ruger SP101.

[umwminer]

3.7 gr Red Dot under a 358429 173 gr SWC for many years in all of my old 5 screw K frames . Very accurate and it seems to me mild load . I would never purposely abuse my old Smith & Wessons . I trust and respect Larry Gibson’s advice and load research . Maybe I should tame it down a bit ?

[Giggles]

red dot is wonderful, green is just as good. When i had the time to reload and actually shoot, the best loads were red dot and green dot for accuracy.. I lump them together because the differences were so small i could not tell them apart, even when labelled.

however that bullseye stuff, gah.

Some "authorities" may not like red or green dot for "high pressure for the velocity", but i enjoy the cleanliness when the charge makes enough chamber pressure to exapnd the hbwc..

[pworley1]

He should get about 18000 rounds out of that that will work great and be fun to shoot.