Need Feedback On A 510 Grain Cast Bullet In Marlin Guide Gun

[lever1886]

Matt's bullets has a gas check 510 grain that looks like it may cycle in a Marlin 45 70 Guide Gun.
http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.ph...roducts_id=252

Has anyone used a 510 grain in a newer marlin ? Could you get 1300 - 1400 fps without excessive recoil ? would there be any advantage over the 405 grain cast in a hunting load ?

Thank You

[Nobade]

It just depends on how big a ditch you want to dig on the far side of your game animal. A 400 won't stop in game, and neither will a 500.

[JFE]

Going to this weight in a Marlin means that the bullet takes up a lot of internal space. If you are going to use this weight it's probably better to look for a design that has a wide meplat to maximize the internal space. 1300-1400 fps is achieveable quite safely.

[lever1886]

Looking at the Lyman 50th Book they have a 45 70 trapdoor load with a 500 cast bullet with a max of 34 grains of Reloader 7 for published 1284 fps and 15,100 CUP.

They do not have any data for a 500 grain cast bullet in the Marlin Rifle Data.

They do have a load in the #1 Ruger section STARTING at 44 grains of Reloader 7 with a 500 grain cast bullet for 27,500 CUP pressure.

So where would you start for the Marlin guide gun ? 36-37 grains of reloader 7 with the 510 grain cast bullet ? Only have a few of them to try.

Thanks for the help

[35remington]

Take a good hard look at overall cartridge length with seated bullet before interpreting whether a load is suitable or not. A Marlin cannot accept anything over 2.550-2.570” and data showing a longer overall cartridge length will not generate the same pressure when loaded shorter in a short throat rifle. In such instances pressure will increase.

[lever1886]

Take a good hard look at overall cartridge length with seated bullet before interpreting whether a load is suitable or not. A Marlin cannot accept anything over 2.550-2.570” and data showing a longer overall cartridge length will not generate the same pressure when loaded shorter in a short throat rifle. In such instances pressure will increase.

Yes, this bullet would be seated deeply into the case. Going to hold off loading any until I can get some feedback from someone who has loaded this actual bullet or a 500-550 grain bullet with the same seating depth.

Thanks to everyone for their help

[lever1886]

I used with a 550 gr seated to feed in a Marlin with 35.5 gr of Reloader7. NOW THAT IS WHAT I USED IN MY MARLIN. YOU UNDERSTAND THIS I HOPE. I AM NOT RECOMMENDING YOU DO THE SAME BUT IT WAS SAFE IN MY GUN AND DUPLICATED GARRETT LOADS.
Read the bold under lined statement over again.
My bullet is an NEI bullet. It has a bore ride nose so bearing length is shorter than some bullets.
You are on your own on this.


Again I mean no hurt, harm, anguish or turmoil by my post I have posted on this posted subject. I am not baiting, trolling or calling out anyone. I am making a post based on my experience, knowledge and/or belief or opinion. That is all.

What does your NEI bullet measure from the crimp groove to the base of the bullet please?

Thanks

Mattsbullets 510 grain 45 cal bullet measures .828 from the crimp groove to the base of the bullet.


Overall length looks like 2.509 seated in a 45 70 case


Mattsbullets .458 510 grain bullet Compared to Meister Bullets 405 grain and 300 grain .458 bullets

[Petander]

Here is my 483 grainer,I have loaded it for a couple of different Marlins for 15 years. VV N130 can give more fps than I want.

I use Quick Load and a chrono to approximate where I'm at.

Attachment 232570

[missionary5155]

Good morning
We have used up to 525 grainers but are fairly settled that 450-485 is more than plenty on any critter we ever get to squeeze the trigger at. But also we are doing so with a 50 Alaskan so maybe not exactly the same type of apple. But your WFN looks much like ours and will give one loud 'Thwap" on target rip snorting through whatever gets in the way.

[lever1886]

I went ahead and measured the depth. The bullet seats .895 inches in the case. You should be okay.
Proceed slowly and work up.
You are going to get varied answers from intellegent to non intellegent just work up your load and you will be happy.

Again I mean no hurt, harm, anguish or turmoil by my post I have posted on this posted subject. I am not baiting, trolling or calling out anyone. I am making a post based on my experience, knowledge and/or belief or opinion. That is all.

Good stuff, was hoping for a seating depth greater than the Mattsbullets .828 for the 510 grain .458 bullet.

Really appreciate your help, thank you

[lever1886]

Here is my 483 grainer,I have loaded it for a couple of different Marlins for 15 years. VV N130 can give more fps than I want.

I use Quick Load and a chrono to approximate where I'm at.

Attachment 232570

How far does the 483 bullet seat into the case ?

Thank you

[lever1886]

Looks like Beartooth bullets has a pile driver 525 grain bullet that they say will feed in a Marlin Lever action.
https://beartoothbullets.com/bullets...ils.php?id=117
https://beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm

They are slightly longer ( 1.280 ) than the Mattsbullets 510 grain ( 1.240) so they would seat ever so slightly deeper in the case.
Going to get a box of these to try as well.
The advantage would be a .375 metplat diameter versus a .350 Metplat diameter on the mattsbullets 510 grain. The Metplat diameter on the beartooth bullet is even larger than the Garrett 540 grain of .360.

OK, a little more searching and I found the load data for the 45 70 from Beartooth bullets:
Found it on a link from this article
http://www.fortyfiveseventy.com/bull...river-bullets/

BEARTOOTH LOAD DATA
http://beartoothbullets.com/open_sig...n_sight.htm/21

[Petander]

How far does the 483 bullet seat into the case ?

Thank you

Attachment 232729

[lever1886]

Just to some up the final bit of research:

Yes, the straight walled case must make a big difference as I can't see how Beartooth would publish these loads and claim that they are below 40K pressure in today's litigation world .

Garrett is advertising 1550 fps with a 540 grain bullet so they must be loading with a similar pressure level
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/4570540tech.html

This is what Garrett says about chamber pressure in a Modern lever action:
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/chamberpressure.html

Buffalo bore advertises a 45 70 load with a 500 grain bullet at 1625 fps. They must load these to a similar pressure as the Beartooth and Garrett.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l ... tail&p=154

It's hard to believe Beartooth, Garrett and Buffalo Bore would encourage the use of a load that was not safe in a Newer 1895 Marlin. At the very least you would see some online comments or concerns about any issues.

For dangerous game at close range it would be hard to beat one of the 510 - 540 grain loads.

Going to try some Mattbullets and some Beartooth bullets and work up some loads with a chrony. My guide gun barrel is only 16 1/2" long so there will be some velocity loss but if I could get to 1450 - 1500 fps that would be outstanding.
These are not for everyday plinking or casual shooting but for a serious load when needed.

On another site one member says that they use 39 grains of Reloader 7 with the 525 grain beartooth piledriver bullet and they backed down from 40 grains and the recoil is less. Another member said they are shooting the 525 grain pile driver behind 40.5 grains of reloader 7 in the .457 wild west case and getting 1550 fps. They said you know something has happened when you pull the trigger.

At this point I think I have researched it all I can and the next step is to just load up some and give it a try. From online comments it may be a while before I see any of the Beartooth bullets as people have commented how slowly they ship. Mattsbullets will ship quite quickly.