What am I looking for in Cast Powders

[Thumbcocker]

It depends on what you are wanting to do. For example red dot/promo and Unique will make literally anything go bang. .32 acp to .45/70. I always have red dot or promo on hand.

Rifles are a different critter if you want more velocity. If you want neat little groups of holes on paper at 100 yards then promo or unique can get you there.

Right now I am chasing 2000+ fps in .308 and factory duplication ln .30-30. It seems that every burn rate of powder has an upper limit. Once you reach the speed limit on that group of powders you need to move on to the next slower group of powders. If I wanted to punch paper or kill cans fast shotgun powders would be all I ever needed.

Handguns have been much simpler. H110 or 296 has worked in ever .44 magnum I have ever had. Power pistol rules in .44 special and 9mm. 231 just kicks butt in .45 acp.

Hope this helps.

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[TjB101]

As mentioned multiple times above, Unique, Bullseye and 2400 are tops for cast in pistols and pistol based carbines. TG for 380acp, 9mm and powderpuff 357/44

Never a fan of H110, not a huge range of charges and beats the crap out of my GP100.

[ABJ]

I think these post are closer to answering your question( 13-18 and 20) and I agree with them. In addition to that, powders faster than blue dot can be pressed into service for most things if you are not wanting top cast velocities. Powders like 4227, 4198, 2400, 4895, 5744, maybe 3031 give me enough velocity and still keep recoil down. I also strongly agree with "405Grain" that 5744 and Buffalo rifle is starting to be my "go to first" powder where I can find a recipe. There are powders that I think have cast applications like 1680, 322, 335, Tac, Varget and others in that range and lots of folks use them but what little I have messed with them the recoil is climbing and the economy of charge weights starts climbing the less I use them. If I was running low on what I call the fast rifle powders and needed some of these slower one's I would post a question here on the specific powder/case combo and I'm sure somebody has "been there-done that" will answer. The reason I do not download any powder I don't have a recipe for is some powders do not respond well like H-110 and W-296.
Another source of info is the vintage reloading manuals of the 50's, 60's and 70's will give some insight into some of the slower powders that are still available like 4064. I would check for formulation changes before using the old data. If you can get a copy of Western's load manual they give a lot of cast data for there products that are a little off the beaten path of what most of us consider the staple powders.
I do understand your frustration of limited availability and thinking outside the box and I to want to hear how some of our fellow members incorporate other powders and how they arrive at each powders suitability.
Tony

[Larry Gibson]

If you're talking about your mentioned (in other thread) 500 yard 30-06 loads you'll want slower powders in the Varget/4064 to H4831 range for use with the 200 +/- gr 311/314299 type bullet. With the 165 XCB you'll want a powder in the range of 2400 - RL7. You will also want to use a dacron filler.

[Cast_outlaw]

I have had good success with Vectan powers lately maybe some of that French power is available to you down there AS and A1 are what I’m currently using AS is a fast burning powder around red dot burn rate and A1 is similar to unique burn rate hope this is more helpful and reloader 7 is my is what gets me out past 200m with cast in 308

[ABJ]

I was hoping Larry Gibson would comment, and if I may without hijacking the thread, how do you arrive at cast loads with the 4064/4831 burn ranges. I think the OP as well as others would find this informative. Example do you start with jacketed data and where do go from there.
Tony

[Thumbcocker]

Yes please especially in .30-06 and .308.

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[MostlyLeverGuns]

Handguns, very light rifle - I like TiteGroup, HP38 and Universal - all measure well, burn clean. Boolits in rifles - .308, .300 Savage .32 Special, .358 Win - mild loads, 5744/Buffalo Rifle, IMR4227, Reloder 7. For full power - .444, 45-70 - H322, Reloder 7, 2015. I don't much worry about 'ghosts' grains left in the barrel if accuracy is good. Hard residue found in a cold barrel after shooting some ball powders (BL-C2, H50, surplus 846) affects first round impact significantly. I don't run 'hot' loads in handguns, if I need more power/range than a 45 Colt - 20 gr 4227/454424/1000 fps - I pick up a rifle.

[dverna]

Wolfdog,

All of us are approaching this from what works for us. And most of us have the "right" powder(s) on hand because we planned ahead. That does not help you...you cannot find the "right" powder(s).

You may want to consider this approach. Determine what powder(s) you can get. Then study load data and/or ask here it anyone is using that powder for cast in the calibers/bullets you shoot. That will get you shooting. You may not be able to get the best powder you want (for example 500 yards with the .30/06) but something that works reasonably well. Something is better than nothing.

I have a problem getting Varget. It took 4 months to get my last jug. I have enough to last a lifetime of varmint and deer/bear hunting but not if I want to shoot for fun. So, I started buying powders that were more readily available. A difference of 1/2 MOA is not the end of the world for banging a 6" steel plate at 200 yards. Sometimes good enough is good enough.

[gwpercle]

Here's my advice . Picking which powder to use is the most confounding aspect to a brand new reloader ... in 1967 I was totally lost and made a few mistakes ....
Get several reloading Manuals ( I like to use 3 or 4 ) and study what powders are used for the cartridge you are loading ... You will see some used in each and every manual - That's good , write them down .
Pick a powder that has lots of data and used in every or most bullet weights or the weight bullet you are interested in loading .
Choose a powder that's been around a long time ... new powders and new company's come and go .
When Alcan came out it was all the rage... I bought a lot of it and still have 2 lbs. of Alcan #5 on my shelf ...bad move ... when's the last time you saw any data for Alcan #5 ? It folded up and went away ... leaving me holding the bag ! Bullseye , Unique , and 2400 Still here after many years , lots of data ... Avoid the new powders from new companies .
Do what your doing ... ask on this site ... You will get some proven answers here and my life would have been easier if I had access to this information all those years ago when I was looking for answers .
The problem today is there are just so many good and different powders on the market ...it makes choosing one hard ! In fact don't choose one ... choose 3 or 4 that will serve . Like when Bullseye dissapeared ... I found 700X , Red Dot , Accurate #2, Tite group , HP-38 and W231 could stand in for Bullseye ... by reading the reloading manuals and burn rate charts !
I put in a good supply of all these powders ...just in case Bullseye didn't come back !
I hope Accurate and Western powders stay around ... Hodgdon bought them but that doesn't mean the powders will continue ... I was liking them ...is it going to be Alcan all over again?
Gary

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

After thinking about this, I'll update my previous post.

Most powders are designed to burn clean at a certain pressure. The kernels are treated with a recipe of deterrents and flow agents to achieve that goal. Red dot is the exception, not coated, that why it burns so fast, but also will burn clean at lower pressures as well as higher pressures.

So, what does that mean?
Typically we shoot cast boolits at lower pressures than we would shoot jacketed boolits (but not always). If you have an idea of what pressure you want to load a cast boolit to, you can look for a powder that burns clean at that pressure. Problem is, where are you gonna find that info when you are in the store looking at a mostly empty powder shelf, but you see a can of CFE BLK and wonder if it'll work for your cast boolits in your 30 cal. rifle? Add to that, new powders tend to be designed for a specific use. To burn clean at a specific pressure range. Maybe that range is narrow, and maybe not? Maybe someone has used it for other purposes than what it was designed for and maybe they wrote an article or maybe not?
How does a new reloader find this info ...I don't know?

Besides the clean burn, there is the pressure curve. Each powder will have it's own pressure curve. The sharper rise of the curve, the more chance to deform a Lead bullet base. There is lots more to this, I ain't prepared to type it all right now

[MT Gianni]

I would get a good manual and take pictures of data. That way when you're at a shop and it has something in stock, pull up your phone and see if you can use it.

[WALLNUTT]

Most powder manufacturers have data on web sites. Check them for applications of powders for your cartridges.

[Larry Gibson]

I was hoping Larry Gibson would comment, and if I may without hijacking the thread, how do you arrive at cast loads with the 4064/4831 burn ranges. I think the OP as well as others would find this informative. Example do you start with jacketed data and where do go from there.
Tony

With the 311/314299 cast bullet in the .308W or the 30-06 using extruded powders in the 4064 to 4831 range I suggest starting at 30 gr in the .308W and 32 gr in the 30-06. That is what I do but I also use a dacron filler and suggest it's use with those slower powders. I work up in 1/2 gr increments using 10 shot groups at 100 yards. Max load will be when accuracy goes south which occurs sooner, at a lower velocity, with a 10" twist. That is why a 12" twist .308W will, invariably, give the same accuracy at a higher velocity than a 10" twist 30-06 or a 10" twist .308W.

[DougGuy]

OP, you haven't given much to work with, no calibers, no boolit weights, not even a gun description. There really isn't any specific "cast" powders. ALL powder has A. a burn rate B. a recommended pressure range C. the ability to kill or maim you or bystanders should you exceed manufacturer's recommended applications or parameters.

What you are asking is like "What's best to start a fire with, lighter fluid or charcoal starter?"

99.9% of posts asking for data list calibers and boolit weights. It would be VERY helpful if you list those specifics in your original post.

[bbogue1]

Great question and great discussion. For those who don't know, The third edition of the Cast Bullet Handbook is available in the files section of Bullet Casting: The Art of The Alloy facebook page https://www.facebook.com/groups/664726383692036/files. While you are there download Fryxels Book "From Ingot yo Target" Both are excellent books.

[toallmy]

Although it could be considered a waste because of the bulk of powder used I like my slower powders in 3030-308-3006 for what I consider longer range 3-4 hundred yards . As recommended by Larry a few years ago , I keep 4064/4350/4831 on hand .
Although most of my fun light shooting is loaded with unique / red dot / green dot / herco And such .
Pay attention to what Was mentioned earlier about using fillers .

[Wolfdog91]

I would get a good manual and take pictures of data. That way when you're at a shop and it has something in stock, pull up your phone and see if you can use it.

Got the newest Hornady , two old serrias ,the new serria on my phone and I can look lmoat stuff up pretty quick but finding cast data is different

[Thumbcocker]

Lyman cast bullet manual.

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[Wolfdog91]

OP, you haven't given much to work with, no calibers, no boolit weights, not even a gun description. There really isn't any specific "cast" powders. ALL powder has A. a burn rate B. a recommended pressure range C. the ability to kill or maim you or bystanders should you exceed manufacturer's recommended applications or parameters.

What you are asking is like "What's best to start a fire with, lighter fluid or charcoal starter?"

99.9% of posts asking for data list calibers and boolit weights. It would be VERY helpful if you list those specifics in your original post.

I did that purposely again not looking for a specific powder or the best. Just what to look for in a powder.
Ok say I stuck you in front of a rack of powders and and said find one that would be good for shooting cast rifle boolits in ....idk the 30cal range. What would be things you look for in that powder that would be favorable towards being used for cast rifle ?