Blacksmiths and Welders

[Dsltech1]

Since there’s a wealth of knowledge here I thought I’d ask a couple questions about some metal I acquired today.
I’m building a log splitter. So I went to a local scrap yard that allows you to scavenge their yard for steel. I managed to find everything I needed there. H-beam, channel, angle, and material for a wedge. Granted the wedge material is more than I was wanting. Which leads me here, I bought a large scrap forklift fork 8” wide and tapers to 3” thick. I cut of a chunk from the front of the fork to make my wedge from. Now I have the leftover portion which still weighs a few hundred pounds.

So my question to the blacksmith types out there. Is there any chance I could re-coup some funds selling the fork as material for a homemade anvil? What does such a thing sell for?

Now to the welders. Since the fork is probably high carbon steel. What’s the best way to weld it or find out if it’s even weldable. From some reading on google it seems pre-heating is a must and low hydrogen rod. I don’t mind using an arc if I need to but I was hoping to use a mig. Is it possible to weld high carbon with a mig and be successful?

[Winger Ed.]

From some reading on google it seems pre-heating is a must and low hydrogen rod. I don’t mind using an arc if I need to but I was hoping to use a mig. Is it possible to weld high carbon with a mig and be successful?

The MIG will 'probably' work depending on how much stress & strain, and in which directions is on the weld joint.
One downside of the MIG is there is only a few different kinds of wire commonly available for it.
If you do use MIG, the 70 series wire and the CO2/Argon mix of gas would be my first choice, and run it as hot as you dare.

For a 'once and done' project--
I'd encourage the pre-heat, low Hydrogen rods and do it with a stick machine.

For the anvil project- you can make a few bucks for a finished item.
But for an odd ball piece of stock with potential, probably not so much.

[GregLaROCHE]

I once welded a forklift blade to the bottom of a steel sailboat keel for extra ballast. I was told I needed special welding rods because of the hardness of the blade. I bought what was recommended, but a lot of my welds would crack right down the middle. I keep welding over them and never had any problems despite running into things with it.

[Misery-Whip]

X2 on preheat. Use an acetelyne torch or rosebud if you have it. Only need to drive the moisture out about 6 inches from the weld seam. You only need a few hundred degrees. After welding throw a welding blanket over it or old leather gloves. Idea i s to get it to cool slowly, slower it cools better chances of it not cracking.

Light weight wire machines arent going to get you any penetration on the thick metal. Stick machine capable of 100 amps and 1/8in 7018 will do fine.

[JM7.7x58]

The fork is most likely 4340 steel. It makes great hammers, and tongs if you have access to a power hammer that can break it down.

Weld requires a high preheat and interpass, 600°F. You would be fine under matching it with 7018, post heating will be important to avoid cracking. Then bury the piece in wood ash or vermiculite, so that it can slow cool.

As far as welding advice goes, the American Welding Society is full of great info.
https://app.aws.org/forum/topic_show.pl?tid=32509
JM

[DougGuy]

Now to the welders. Since the fork is probably high carbon steel. What’s the best way to weld it or find out if it’s even weldable. From some reading on google it seems pre-heating is a must and low hydrogen rod. I don’t mind using an arc if I need to but I was hoping to use a mig. Is it possible to weld high carbon with a mig and be successful?

The fork is pretty close to SA514 T1 steel, which is what 99% of the bucket cut edge plates are, where you see the shanks welded on the bucket, that part, is T1, it is VERY abrasion and also impact resistant. T1 is some awesome strong steel for sure, and many welding procedures commonly shared don't specify the filler metal needed, and don't explain the HAZ (heat affected zone).

For welding T1 to let's say SA572 (this steel has a very high strength to weight ratio, so it is often used in bucket bodies, excavator booms, etc) you could use 7018, but welding T1 to T1 you would want to use 8018 H4 (very low hydrogen content) or an 8100 Ni2 H4 fluxcore wire. Preheat on plate thicker than 1" yes. 300F on 1" to 2" T1 plate, 375F on 2" or thicker T1, observe a 700F interpass temperature (this is where you quit welding and go have a smoke or take a break and let the work cool down so you can weld on it some more).

Welding this type of metal with a hard wire MiG like that copper colored .035" or .045" can be done, but this procedure has a VERY rapid heating and cooling temperature to the weld metal, and it can often be quite brittle to the point where the weld fails and either breaks or breaks at the edge of the weld (in the HAZ). I would not trust welding T1 with a home type MiG box and putting it in a position that should it fail, could easily cause critical injury or fatality. A MiG root and hot pass, then fill and cap with dual shield fluxcore works great, and if you back gouge and get all the MiG out, and back weld with fluxcore, this is what we do in a code shop normally where every inch of weld is x-rayed, and quality control and specific welding procedures are the OOTD,

[Dsltech1]

Thanks for the replies guys!

The fork is pretty close to SA514 T1 steel, which is what 99% of the bucket cut edge plates are, where you see the shanks welded on the bucket, that part, is T1, it is VERY abrasion and also impact resistant. T1 is some awesome strong steel for sure, and many welding procedures commonly shared don't specify the filler metal needed, and don't explain the HAZ (heat affected zone).

For welding T1 to let's say SA572 (this steel has a very high strength to weight ratio, so it is often used in bucket bodies, excavator booms, etc) you could use 7018, but welding T1 to T1 you would want to use 8018 H4 (very low hydrogen content) or an 8100 Ni2 H4 fluxcore wire. Preheat on plate thicker than 1" yes. 300F on 1" to 2" T1 plate, 375F on 2" or thicker T1, observe a 700F interpass temperature (this is where you quit welding and go have a smoke or take a break and let the work cool down so you can weld on it some more).

Welding this type of metal with a hard wire MiG like that copper colored .035" or .045" can be done, but this procedure has a VERY rapid heating and cooling temperature to the weld metal, and it can often be quite brittle to the point where the weld fails and either breaks or breaks at the edge of the weld (in the HAZ). I would not trust welding T1 with a home type MiG box and putting it in a position that should it fail, could easily cause critical injury or fatality. A MiG root and hot pass, then fill and cap with dual shield fluxcore works great, and if you back gouge and get all the MiG out, and back weld with fluxcore, this is what we do in a code shop normally where every inch of weld is x-rayed, and quality control and specific welding procedures are the OOTD,

The mig is a light industrial unit but I’d rather buy some rod than a roll of flux core I’ll use once. So looks like arc it is. Is 8018 readily available at most welding supplies or is it an online order item?
I forgot to mention I’ll be welding it to mild steel if that changes anything.

[M-Tecs]

https://tontio.com/forklifts-guides/...ring%20forging.

[JM7.7x58]

Any decent welding supply store will have 8018, or can order it, (or 11018 which is what we use to weld up HY-100).

While you are there buy some temperature indicating crayons so you can check your pre-heat and interpass temps.

If you don’t have a big oxy-fuel rosebud torch, you could try a propane barbecue in conjunction with a plumbers torch to get your pre heat and slow post heat temps.

If it’s too cold it will crack. Keep everything nice and hot and you should be fine.

[JM7.7x58]

The last thing that I will say about under matching filler material is that the “proper” alloy to run when welding 4340 to 4340 steel is Atom Arc 4340 or equivalent. Our welding engineers will often call out an under matched filler like 7018 when going from 4340/4140 to mild steel. The reason for this is the higher ductility of the 7018 which decreases the chances of the weldment cracking. The 7018 is stronger than the weaker mild steel so there is no loss to the structural integrity of the weldment.

If you have to buy Fifty pounds of 8018 to get some, I wouldn’t do it. A new sealed ten pound can of garden variety 7018 will be just fine as long as you get it hot, keep it hot, and let it cool down extremely slow.

[Three44s]

Going to mild steel I would go with a fresh box of stick 7018, keep it dry and indoors and warm until you weld with it.

For pre-heat use a propane weed burner torch, a five gallon bottle and away you go! The temple stick is a good idea.

Three44s

[GregLaROCHE]

Remembering now I’m pretty sure I used 70 something that was recommended at the welding supply store. Unfortunately, nobody told me anything about preheating. I wish someone had. I often worried the blade might fall off one day in bad weather.

[john.k]

A friend of mine who has big earthmovers bought a stack of heavy steel flats (6x2?) at a factory auction ....seems the steel may have been shear blades.......anyhoo,his guys spent a lot of time fabricating and welding up a big grid sort of thing to keep big rocks out of a crusher.......as the grid cooled ,most of the welds cracked down the middle .

[Keyman]

This answer is about selling for an anvil. These forks will work as a very beginner project, but most beginners are young and broke. Do not expect to get very much for the tine. Anvils are available in what we call the "Lower 48" at a very good price. In Alaska many beginners can not find an anvil, so they will buy these and cut them down and weld up something.

[DougGuy]

A friend of mine who has big earthmovers bought a stack of heavy steel flats (6x2?) at a factory auction ....seems the steel may have been shear blades.......anyhoo,his guys spent a lot of time fabricating and welding up a big grid sort of thing to keep big rocks out of a crusher.......as the grid cooled ,most of the welds cracked down the middle .

They were probably manganese, you need 309L stainless filler metal to weld this stuff.

[Dsltech1]

Found some 8018. It was rather difficult to find it in the 10lb variety though. Bought some 7018 for the rest of what I’m welding. Might as well knock as much rust off of my arc skills as I can. Temp sticks I had on hand. Waiting for some 3/8” plate to weld the wedge to and I can get started. I’m going to bolt the plate to the H beam so the wedge is removable. I’m hoping to make this a dual purpose project. Log splitter and wire extruder. I may ditch that idea though and just make it a dedicated splitter.

Keyman, That’s something I didn’t know. I assumed most guys built their own. At least the guys I’ve worked with in the past did anyway. Most of them went the railroad track route for their anvils though. I’m thinking about posting it for $80-100 and offer to cut off sections for a different price if someone doesn’t want to take the whole thing. I paid $0.38/lb for everything. Just looking to recoup some funds since the fork was probably half of the weight that day.

[HWooldridge]

The preheat is most important. The problem with welding the higher carbon steels is the HAZ or heat affected zone, which is where you get carbon dissolution. Cracks then become more likely where the chill line creates embrittlement.

I have successfully welded high carbon with E6011 but I ran a 600 degree preheat then covered it with insulation to allow a slower cool down.