.350 Legend Bullet diameter?

[Lord Va]

Okay, not sure where to post this question at? So I was wondering what bullet diameter the .350 Legend is? I wanted to get a .350 Legend upper for it and since I have swaging dies for .357” bullets anyway, I thought why not? What’s the bullet diameter? I read and some say .355” and some say .356” and then the factory states .357” diameter? I like to know and from what I understand it is a new round. Any input is appreciated.

[cwlongshot]

It is .355. Any one saying different is misinformed. MUCH MISSINFORMATION OUT THERE! 100% WINCHESTERS FAULT!!

You gonna have to try, but I have five barrels here and none of mine will chamber a .357. But its dependant upon the throat of your barrel.

In jacketed, I shoot Fury .355 bullets & Hornady 165 FTX .355 bullets to great effect. In cast I size .356 and ahoot 160-270g bullets with great effect.

CW

[FergusonTO35]

Is there a good reason for the Legend using a .355 instead of the .357 that pretty much every other .35 caliber uses?

[NSB]

Is there a good reason for the Legend using a .355 instead of the .357 that pretty much every other .35 caliber uses?

Yes, so you’ll buy factory ammo because of the shortage of any good jacketed bullets. There are some out there now, but selection is limited.

[cwlongshot]

Is there a good reason for the Legend using a .355 instead of the .357 that pretty much every other .35 caliber uses?

Maybe in the minds of the Winchester creators.

Not in anyone with firearms experience.

CW

[bcp]

Look like from 0.354 to 0.357 bullets. And a 0.355 groove dia.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads...2021-06-04.pdf

Bruce

[Moleman-]

Look like from 0.354 to 0.357 bullets. And a 0.355 groove dia.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads...2021-06-04.pdf

Bruce

That's the game winchester is playing so the 350L was legal to use in Iowa which required a .357" projectile. From the SAAMI specs they can say .357" is within "spec" and never make a .357" bullet for it. From the specs .357" overlaps both the bullet and freebore dia. Generally you'll have at least .001" and usually .002" or more clearance in the freebore on production guns, not zero. Drop it down to .355" bullet diameter and a .357" freebore makes sense. Would you buy bullets from someone who told you the best tollerace they had on bullets was .000"/-.003"? I pulled some 180gr power point bullets which winchester says are .357". https://winchester.com/350-legend They were all .355" just the same as the .355" power points they sell for reloading. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1021525515 The deer will never know the difference, but it's just poor business ethics to state something that is easily proven incorrect.

[M-Tecs]

Don't remember the source or how legitimate it is but the claim was the designers of 350L believed the majority of the commonly available heavy .358" jacketed bullets would not withstand the 350L velocity. They opted for a 9mm bore since it would require specific designed bullets.

[cwlongshot]

I dont know about that M-Tec as I have shot many of these bullets in my Maxi at less pressure and velocity and they work for me. Now of coarase they was designed for higher and would preform better... But they do work and I have truck load of deer and hogs that have never complained.

Yes and for any that dont know, MOLE Man is one that should known as he has been one that started the 357ar cartridge. IE what the 350 legend SHOULD HAVE BEEN!

Im a firm beleiver that those @ Winchester are young and inexperienced and choose to ride the 9mm coat tails with all its recent fur ver. (Something else I dont follow)

I have learned to very much like my 350's. Largely because of CAST BULLETS!

[NSB]

Commonly available bullets, such as the Hornady XTP 158g JHP will work fine up to around 2300+ fps. At 2400 fps I started having failure rates of about 30% where the bullets simply fell apart before reaching the target. I verified this by shooting at paper targets and many had only small bullet fragments hit the paper at twenty-five yards. Kept within their working speeds they work just fine. I’ve taken many deer with those bullets.
Edit: forgot to mention the gun was a .357max rifle. Two different MGM barrels and one Low Wall

[cwlongshot]

I shot many pistol bullets thru the 357 Herrett back in the day.

Speer 140's and Hornady 158 SP was very good on deer.

WELL ABOVE i tended velocities. Few recovered.

CW

[M-Tecs]

I shot many pistol bullets thru the 357 Herrett back in the day.

Speer 140's and Hornady 158 SP was very good on deer.

WELL ABOVE i tended velocities. Few recovered.

CW

If I remember correctly I killed 5 deer with the Speer 140 grain in the 357 Herrett at max velocity. They worked very well but they did act more like varmint bullets. The off shoulder normally was peppered with fragments. When the 350L came out I was ready to pull the trigger on one until I found out it had the .355" bore.

Seems to be a lot of BS surrounding the 350L. Do to this I do not see one in my future.


https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/wh...th-350-legend/

We reached out to Winchester to ask about these potential problems. A Winchester representative had this to say about the .350 Legend:

In regards to 350 Legend bullets, please refer to the attached SAAMI drawing (PDF) attached SAAMI drawing. Common among all modern centerfire projectiles, 350 Legend’s SAAMI bullet diameter includes a tolerance to allow for slight variations in manufacturing. The 350 Legend SAAMI bullet diameter is specified at .357”-.003”. Similar bullet tolerances also exist for 357 Magnum and 357 Maximum.

The 350 Legend also uses the same .346” bore and .355” groove dimensions as 357 Mag and 357 Max. Therefore, bullets exit the muzzle at approximately .355” when fired from any of those three cartridges.

Additionally, some reloaders have asked if they can reload 350 Legend using various component bullets that are already on the market. Reloaders could probably find existing bullets that will work, but they will not be ideal for the 350 Legend cartridge. Many of the existing bullets on the market were designed for terminal expansion at lower velocities, and therefore will not perform properly on game animals at the higher velocities of 350 Legend. Additionally, many existing bullets lack the correct ogive to be seated at a length that will chamber reliably in the 350 Legend. A similar example exists with 30 caliber rifle bullets; there is not a single 30 Caliber bullet that can be loaded perfectly across all 30 caliber cartridges. We don’t use the same bullets for 30-30 Win and .308 Win and 7.62x39mm. When Winchester designed 350 Legend, we engineered all of the bullets from scratch to be optimized for the new cartridge. We are also beginning to deliver those bullets as components.

There are a few problems with this answer. The first being that the .350 Legend is a rifle cartridge and the issue of diameter and chamber pressure. The .350 Legend is not a pistol cartridge, despite being quite similar to one in a number of ways.

[FergusonTO35]

Seems to me that most folks reloading the .350 would first look to bullets used in the .35 Remington or .358 WCF rather than .357 handgun bullets. For someone who lives in a straight wall state and doesn't reload or is content with the tiny selection of factory bullets I can see the .350 being useful. I would rather get into the .38-55 myself.

[NSB]

Seems to me that most folks reloading the .350 would first look to bullets used in the .35 Remington or .358 WCF rather than .357 handgun bullets. For someone who lives in a straight wall state and doesn't reload or is content with the tiny selection of factory bullets I can see the .350 being useful. I would rather get into the .38-55 myself.

The Legend is .355” so using a .358” bullet isn’t the right choice to begin with.

[FergusonTO35]

What I meant was, according to M-Tec's quote, Winchester seemed to think that reloaders would turn first to .357 handgun bullets and so they gave it a .355 groove instead. My point is, if they gave it a .357-.358 groove then most reloaders would have chosen .358 rifle bullets from the get go. I bet we are going to see alot of experimentation with 9mm handgun bullets in this cartridge and alot of wounded game as a result.

[NSB]

What I meant was, according to M-Tec's quote, Winchester seemed to think that reloaders would turn first to .357 handgun bullets and so they gave it a .355 groove instead. My point is, if they gave it a .357-.358 groove then most reloaders would have chosen .358 rifle bullets from the get go. I bet we are going to see alot of experimentation with 9mm handgun bullets in this cartridge and alot of wounded game as a result.

They are already making some bullets for this cartridge. Bellm is selling some. Problem with this is that the variety is very limited. I honestly think they did a poor job of releasing this new cartridge. It would have made a lot more sense to have simply made it .357 to begin with. This is a case of where they tried to say “ours is better because…..” and there is no “because”. There is a huge selection of already existing proven bullets available in .357”, and it’s no trick to shoot .358” bullets in those guns. That .001” isn’t a deal breaker. I’ve been around long enough to see some of these wonder cartridges come and go. Usually due to lack of loaded factory ammo that’s dropped because of lack of sales. I could be wrong, but this might be one of them. It’s hard to get any bullet manufacturer to keep making products when the bottom line doesn’t support the effort. Add to this that the states that require specific straight walled cases with specific lengths keep loosening up on the specs and shooters keep making existing cartridges that legally cheat the system. Pretty soon the Legend loses its place in line.

[1006]

Not to argue any of the points made—they all seem correct—,but rather to ask:

Why does it matter, once you know it needs a .355 bullet?

Granted, a lot of confusion has resulted from the inaccurate presentation of facts (.357-.03, bending of the truth to make it legal in all states, ect)

I like the fact that cheap 9mm pistol bullets can be used for plinking, they are more plentiful at lower prices than 357. Most of the younger generation (I am 58) of shooters are more likely to own and load for a 9mm than a 38 or 357.

[NSB]

There are almost NO 9mm bullets suited for hunting big game. Yes, they’ll work in the Legend, but if you’re buying it for hunting deer in some states that promote cartridges like this, it’s lacking in ethical hunting applications using handgun bullets designed for 9mm handgun use.

[FergusonTO35]

Right now is not the the time to be getting into a new cartridge unless you have a grand just burning a hole in your wallet and/or you don't already have a rifle and ammo you can legally hunt with. I love to experiment as much as anyone else, but this is an expensive time to do it!

[P Flados]

I have one of the 357AR max guns pioneered by Moleman. I am a longtime 357 Max shooter. I followed the 350L closely when it first came out.

I have pondered the 0355" choice at length.

There are two explanations that actually make a little sense.

The 350L case is bigger at the base than the 223 and it is just long enough so that it is not practical to convert 223 brass to 350L. Now Winchester is all about selling 350L ammo and guns to hunters much more so than supporting the small fraction that reload. However, there was probably some consideration for reloading. Although many end users are not thrilled about the inability to convert 223 cases, it reduces the potential for the cartridge from getting a bad reputation from folks doing a poor job converting cases and then badmouthing the round. It also reduces the potential for stupid legal action when someone blow up a gun or gets hurt using converted cases. And thirdly, it had the potential to help sell more Winchester factory ammo and/or Winchester reloading components (the 350L was developed before the current ammo supply crisis).

The second potential reason is more likely to have been an actual consideration. The 357AR Max can be pretty tricky to get set up for proper feeding of the ammo into the chamber. The 350L has much more taper to the case and seems to be more forgiving in this regard. To increase the taper, they increased the case diameter just ahead of the rim. However, the amount of increase available to the designers was limited given that too much would affect how the round works with AR-15 style magazines. Going with 0.355" bullets in lieu of 0.358" bullets helped Winchester get more taper on the case without increasing the base diameter more than they wanted. I actually think the increase in case taper has been a big plus for getting the round to feed acceptably in the AR-15 platform.