uberti '73 win using 454190. different powder amounts changing the amount of compression, all bullets go straight, no key holes, but accuracy sucks with bp, 777, pyrodex with almost exact results, appears to be lube to end of barrel. my smokeless load is 11gr, #5 with gc rnf. results in 1.5" groups @ 50 about as good as I can see.
anyway, is it possible the 454190 doesn't carry enough lube? would anyone invest in a "big lube" mold?
If your getting a good lube star on the muzzle that shouldnt be a big problem then you have lube past the muzzle.
The problem might lie with the bullet a gas checked Hard bullet my not seal the bore as good as a softer one with no gas check.
I can guarantee you the 454190 does not carry enough black powder lube, at least that has been my experience over the years. To solve this problem I started buying 250g Big Lube 45 Colt bullets, cast of 1-20 alloy and lubed with SPG from Mark Whyte (www.WhyteLeatherWorks.com). He will size them either .452" or .454" as needed. They shoot quite accurately from my USFA single actions and I've fired as many as 50 rounds of full power black powder loads with out the cylinder binding from BP fouling.
YMMV,
Dave
If that bullet is a gas check and you're not seating the gas check that could be most of the problem. With the lube star at the muzzle the amount of lube isn't the problem, it's more likely the size of the bullet or powder charge causing the accuracy problems.
My favorite 45 colt bullet is one I cast from the RCBS 260 Kt, either 16-1 or 20-1. I pretty much use Bullshops NASA lube on all the grease groove bullets with either smokeless or black.
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I'm not being clear, my bp bullet is the 454190, soft alloy. have tried .450, .452,and .454 sizing with almost the same results. Ditto p0wders, 777, bp, and pyrodex, not much difference in accuracy (poor). I included my smokeless load results to illustrate that accuracy is achievable. If I am running out of lube would my bullets key hole? BTW, my lube is darr which has always served me well, and a thin commercial card between bullet and powder.
Is your smokeless load using the same bullet as what you're trying with the fake stuff and the real bp?
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It has been my experience that a larger lube payload is advisable with BP. I use either SPG or White's BP1 lube for BP cartridges. If I am shooting that day, I will use one of my homemade lubes in tallow/wax mixtures. I reserve smokeless lubes for smokeless propellants. I use the Accurate 450250D bullet (the 454190 clone), crimped over the top lube groove for the 1873 & 1866 variants to maintain <1.60" COAL. Filling both lube grooves provides enough lube for the BP loads. I crimp OVER the upper groove, encapsulating it too in the case.
Attachment 292723
Last edited by Tar Heel; 12-06-2021 at 07:02 AM.
Measure the case mouth of a fired cartridge and see where that is,the fattest bullet that will chamber is the right size. I suspect bullet fit is the problem and would start there, 45 Colt is not a difficult cartridge to get to shoot at least decent when the bullet fits.
The 454190 is a 19th century design and they didn’t have anything but revolvers in .45 Colt back then. It may be that it doesn’t carry enough lube for a longer barrel. I love the bullet in my Uberti Model P, shoots great with BP.
Bullets are too small. Try pan lubing and shooting unsized at .455-.456 with 50-50 olive oil and beeswax.
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To confirm lack of lube is the proble, you might try putting a lubed felt wad or lube cookie under the bullet and see if that helps your problem
in mine for BP i use
https://accuratemolds.com/bullet_det...bullet=45-260F
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I my 45 cal win/Miroku m73, 24” barrel with 35 grs of real BP 2fg Goex.
Cleaning with a pull through breach to muzzle the pull through bogged heavily about 8” from the muzzle. I was shooting a LEE 255 RF and that bullet has 2 narrow lube grooves that are not very deep. My lube was homemade Emmerts Improved cast with 20:1 rotometals alloy.
This handload works great in the 5.5” barrel of my Ruger revolvers.
For the 24” rifle barrel this bullet didn’t carry enough lube, hard crusty fouling built up in the front 8” of my barrel proving that to me.
The LEE bullet lube groove capacity is similar to the OP Lyman 454190, it a handgun bullet.
I switched to casting a Lyman 452664 it has a single wider and deeper lube groove.
My rifle barrel got adequately lubed but a got leading and blamed the bevel base creating a narrow base drive band and perhaps some of the lube maybe getting blast down the bore because of the narrow base drive band. I found both BP fouling and the lead were easily brushed out.
I need to slug the M73 barrel some day.
In November received a new bullet mold an Accurate 45-260F, it has a wide and deep lube groove and a plain base with a wide base drive band and a crimp groove which is more important for smokeless powder use to prevent bullet setback. It’s to cold to cast now but I have high hopes for this new mold and bullet come spring.
Had not thought of that. My smokeless load is 1.5"@ 50yds with a .452 bullet and I read Uberti
barrels run tight, that's as good as I CAN see. My ability to slug barrels pretty much sucks too. My lube is 50/50 canning wax and vaseline, works pretty good for my other loads including the smokeless one I use in the Uberti. I can try some unsized too.
That was for OP75.
I was just going to ask you that. If I may suggest see if you can find someone who can slug or cast your chamber/bore. There are at times hidden surprises.Originally Posted by salvadore
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This may be your problem. Black powder and petroleum-based products do not play well together.
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I've heard that sq1, I have a pretty good supply of beeswax, need to order some lanolin and castor oil and see if I can figure out my formula from 15 or so years ago. Changing the lube and using unsized bullets would be the cheapest change. BTW I have shot my gas checked bullet with either 777 or pyrodex and shot pretty good groups.
Not a fan of DD products. If purchasing a new mold I would recommend working with Tom at https://www.accuratemolds.com/ for a suitable design.
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I guess they're fine for the intended purpose of CAS with cruddy powder. I tried a few and the only one worth keeping was the Snakebite 38 cal. For some reason that design is super accurate in my rifle. I have sold off the 32 cal mold a long time ago, but last night I was testing out a new lube recipe and noticed I had a box of those left. I loaded up some of them and some #3118 for my little rolling block. At 25 yards the #3118 was pretty much one ragged hole and the big lube bullets went into about a 10 inch group. But they didn't try to foul out!
As for the OP and back to topic, yes the #454190 is kind of skimpy in the lube department for rifles. But they work great for me in my wife's Marlin Cowboy by duplexing 10% smokeless under the charge and reducing the black accordingly. Still feels and sounds like black but never fouls out and is super accurate. That might be worth a try to see how it works for you.
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