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Thread: 50 cal muzzle loader dirty bore

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy DCB's Avatar
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    Angry 50 cal muzzle loader dirty bore

    I have this CVA 50 cal inline Shoots good. I have killed a deer every year that I have had it,
    I clean it with CVA Gel, concentrated cleaning gel.
    It looks good then after a few months it looks like it had never been cleaned. (Rusty black looking crud)
    So I have tried the true and tested with soapy hot water. 3 or 4 different bore cleaners hopes#9 was the last one and it is nasty bore! this has been the issue for 3 years now.
    Now, I have been shooting Hodgons Triple7 pellets 240gr Sabot from the beging in this muzzle loader. Any thoughts and comments welcome.
    Has anyone had this issue?
    Thanks Dave

  2. #2
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    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what you are asking?
    I have heard Triple 7 is less corrosive than regular Pyrodex.
    I have shot with the Holy Black, as well as Pyrodex, in my TC, clean with soapy hot water, dry, then lube barrel inside and out with bear grease. After a year of storage (Minnesota is likely as humid as OH), no rust and no black crud.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
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  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy DCB's Avatar
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    Thanks Jon, Well the issue seams to be that no matter how much I clean and "it looks good at the time of the cleaning" a few months later I check it and it looks as if I never cleaned it. <Iam puzzled>
    Thanks

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    waksupi's Avatar
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    With the fake powder, you may as well figure on cleaning them once or twice every week. Your area is damp, and I don't know just how you could go about finally killing the chemical in those powders. Baking soda rinse, maybe? If you can get real black powder, I would bet the problem would go away.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Just use Blackhorn 209. It’s basically smokeless powder and it works like a smokeless powder…..no crud and no rust. It’s also a very good powder as far as accuracy and reliability go. I quit using everything else including real black and never looked back.

  6. #6
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    GregLaROCHE's Avatar
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    I like to use compressed air to quickly blow dry my muzzle loaders, if I have it available. I just use warm water, not hot with dish soap. Hot water is said to flash rust barrels. I don’t think it works any better, so I play it safe. I use a patch with a liberal amount of original Ballistol (not the spray it’s too thin) to coat the bore. If you know you won’t be shooting it in the near future, any sort of a thin grease coating would be good insurance. Be sure to use something to remove it before loading the gun the next time.

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy lawdog941's Avatar
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    Have the same style CVA. When I'm done, I've used olive oil/beeswax/lanolin mix to coat the bore. It usually keeps it cleaned, but lately, just been using regular LPX gun oil to coat the barrel. It's thick enough to stay in place, just remember to clean out before shooting.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have an old CVA Wolf with a rough bore that would get invisible plastic fouling, then aggressively rust below the fouling. Eventually it made a ring of pitting where the base of the sabot sits on top of the powder charge.

    I fire lapped it and got much easier cleaning. My fire lapping load was with soft full bore bullets. I wanted to fire lap it with a really reduced load to lap behind the crud ring pitting. I used 30 grains of powder with two maxiballs and a sabot with the petals cut off. My thinking was the soft lead wouldn't firelap very well compared to wheel weights and probably wouldn't obturate with the low charge, so I sent 740 grains down range instead of 370, 6 driving bands instead of 3. I bet the bottom one at least squished out some because it worked really well. I think I only shot 5 or 6.

    That gun now cleans up with a spit patch between shots with no plastic fouling. Before I put it away I pour hot water in the barrel, brush it a few times with a soapy brush, then pour more hot water and it is clean as a whistle. The only rust since then has been on the outside from hard days of deer driving and not wiping it down that night.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    I've shot Pyrodex for years, mainly because I bought a bunch being closed out a long time ago. I clean my caplocks and inlines in hot, soapy water, dry good, run a patch with bore butter down the barrel- and have never had any problems. Check 'em months later with a clean patch and it comes out white.

    I do lay the barrels on a heat register for a while after cleaning. Is it possible that you're not getting all of the moisture out?

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by NSB View Post
    Just use Blackhorn 209. It’s basically smokeless powder and it works like a smokeless powder…..no crud and no rust. It’s also a very good powder as far as accuracy and reliability go. I quit using everything else including real black and never looked back.
    Ya might try ground up unicorn horn (that an BH 209 ) are about the same (SCARCE) to non existent !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCB View Post
    I have this CVA 50 cal inline Shoots good. I have killed a deer every year that I have had it,
    I clean it with CVA Gel, concentrated cleaning gel.
    It looks good then after a few months it looks like it had never been cleaned. (Rusty black looking crud)
    So I have tried the true and tested with soapy hot water. 3 or 4 different bore cleaners hopes#9 was the last one and it is nasty bore! this has been the issue for 3 years now.
    Now, I have been shooting Hodgons Triple7 pellets 240gr Sabot from the beging in this muzzle loader. Any thoughts and comments welcome.
    Has anyone had this issue?
    Thanks Dave
    "after a few months" might be the greater part of the problem . !!!
    I live in a gun friendly environment (Think Arizona climate) I go through the rack every couple months at worst, oily rag down the bore, quick wipe over, left season to season I would expect to find a problem someplace.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy DCB's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the comments,
    I did coat the bore but with only gun oil.
    I do keep check on all my gun during the year and have not had any problems with the black powder. I keep track of this CVA and checked it every couple months and it was good up to this time.
    I cleaned the bore yesterday and used some military bore green can cleaner
    I will use some grease when MZLoader season is over and it gets put in the gun rack.
    Thanks

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy tmanbuckhunter's Avatar
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    Soapy water or a moosemilk like ballistol/water is all you need. Fancy black powder cleaners, gels etc... are snake oil. There is also a chance you are mixing your T7 fouling with petroleum products, which might be why it's not necessarily going anywhere.

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy lawdog941's Avatar
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    Well, if your putting it away clean, is it possible someone else is taking it out and shooting it, returning it without cleaning? They get extra dirty from shooting, but if you clean them, then they're getting dirty somehow.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    So, crud a while after cleaning.

    Is it rusty (redish/brown) or is it black? Black I associate with powder fouling.

    When I used Break Free CLP it was always a two step cleaning process. Clean gun on one day. After a week or so clean it again and would get out more powder fouling. Also worked like that when cleaning tank main guns

  16. #16
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    i have kept inlines loaded with pyrodex rust free for 2 years while loaded the whole time.

    The trick with pyrodex is to forget old wives tails you hear on these sites about cleaning a muzzle loader.

    the trick is really really really simple. DOnt listen to the old wives tails.

    The best way is to pull the breech plug, run a dry patch through, repeat, repeat. Then run a patch lubricated with hoppes #9 on it. then a dry patch, then a bore brush with a hoppes #9 lubricated patch on it.

    Use traditions thread lube and your good to go. I have done that for 20 years now and the bore has stayed mirror bright the whole time.

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy
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    What Bunk Theory said. He does what I do for the most part. What I guess is happening, is you are not getting it totally clean. Maybe micro pitting, real sharp rifling, etc. Once you put oil or bore butter on it, it softens it up and it creeps a bit. When you run a patch through it at a later date, you pick up more foulng that was "spread out" by the oil or other lube you're using.

  18. #18
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    no one remember the crud ring from the first generation of triple seven?

    chemical reaction with some lubes can leave it a horrid crust. And you need to remember that some lubes will have a bad chemical reaction with other un specified cleaners.

    If you want an interesting reaction combine a half teaspon of hoppes #9 cleaner with a half tea spoon of rem oil.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    Break Free CLP is what i use after Dawn/water wash. May help to know the chemicals in Triple7?
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  20. #20
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    Tar Heel's Avatar
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    All of the BP purists (including me) are shaking our heads. When shooting the high-tech inline guns with "modern" propellants and then cleaning them with "modern" cleaners, you have no idea what kind of chemistry is cooking in your bore. I only shoot BP or Pyrodex. I clean with soap and water or if at a rendezvous or other encampment, I wipe clean with Moose Milk and clean with hot soapy water when I get back home. I NEVER and I mean NEVER use any commercial solution in my BP guns including bullet lube.

    Having stood on my podium and lectured appropriately, I suggest you follow whatever cleaning method is put forth by the makers of T7 or the other chemical propellants you are using. Specific chemical reactions with powder residue and cleaning compounds are desired and some are to be avoided at all costs.

    After cleaning whatever gun I have fired that day, be it a BP gun or a smokeless cartridge gun, I make a habit of inspecting the gun a few days later to ensure I have not missed anything. With my BP guns, this is always done to reapply a light coating of Balistol oil to the gun. Periodically, I get a little more rust/residue/gunk/whatever out of the bore. Sounds like you are inspecting a few days later too. That's a good habit to have!

    I will look forward to reading this post after all the snake oil purveyors have their say to see what version is decided best for you.

    Hodgdon says:

    Cleaning a muzzleloader after using Triple Seven and White Hots products is a breeze. Muzzleloading propellants are typically hygroscopic, so moisture collects quickly in the remaining residue after firing. Before putting the firearm in storage, to prevent rusting, the gun should be properly cleaned. Because Triple Seven and White Hots can be cleaned with water, no bore solvents are necessary, making cleaning simple, quick and easy.

    The first step is removing the breech plug from the barrel. Following removal, simply take cleaning patches lightly soaked in water and swab the barrel. When a damp patch finishes clean, scrub with one or two dry patches to remove any moisture, and run a final lubed patch through the bore to prevent rust.

    Next, take the breech plug and use a light solvent with a small scrub brush and remove the grease and residue. Clean the flash hole with a pipe cleaner, re-lube the threads, return the breech plug to the barrel, and the process is complete. Wipe down the exterior of the firearm with a lightly lubed gun cloth, and the gun is ready for storage.

    https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/cleaning-muzzleloader
    Last edited by Tar Heel; 12-04-2021 at 10:15 AM.
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