I hope so too. I always thought Iowa showed a lot more promise. Unfortunately it's been so overshadowed by other states due to the extreme old school regulations, and lack of public land. Maybe the locals like it that way though. I know the guides and ranches who capitalize on Iowa's somewhat outdated reputation as a whitetail buck state like things the way they are.Originally Posted by Kevinakaq
He has a Zeiss scope on it.
I had it happen with a Nikon Buckmaster. I replaced the Nikon with a Vortex Viper...no more issues.
Don Verna
I screwed up...he is going to Kansas. Another camp member hunts Iowa and he uses a .350 Legend
Don Verna
Everybody can have a bad moment and muff a shot. Drives me crazy to hear about wanna-be hunters who not only don't understand the basics about shooting or their equipment, but care so little for the game they want to kill. Game animals deserve at least a good effort to do it right.
I can't remember brands anymore, but a few years ago I recall seeing one or more bolt action rifles advertising as being bore sighted. They were guaranteeing you would be on target at 100 yards out of the box. I knew a guy who had bought one, and when he came back after hunting, was very unhappy with the rifle. He had wounded a deer, and was absolutely furious that it was the rifle. I come to find out he never even sighted it in. This guy had thought the guarantee meant the rifle was sighted in. He wasn't even using the ammo they were recommending. This is a grown man, been hunting his whole life, and he honestly thought he could buy a rifle, whatever ammo, and he was good to go. It was not a lack of caring, it was a lack of understanding.
Not everyone can be experts, or even good at everything. There's plenty of great hunters who are mediocre at best shooters. There's tons of great shooters who couldn't sneak up on a city Pidgeon.
I will never understand not wanting to check sights on a gun though. It's the same with people who drive around and haven't checked their oil in months. Or people who don't know where even one of their fire extinguishers are, let alone if they are still good. How many people every year on the first freeze drive as though it's an 80 degree summer day, then just throw up their hands when they slide off the road. Certain people are just oblivious.
My guess is both shots missed. The deer likely just fell at the sound of the second shot (for whatever reason), took some time to gather itself, and then trotted off. I've had pre-injured deer do the same thing. JMO
Thats pretty much 90% of the world and all gun magazines.
I know so called gunsmiths that cant even tell they have installed a scope on a rifle, BACKWARDS.. my local dunhams specializes in that practice for some reason, really burns ammo up.
In high school I bought the hunting rifle of a friend's mother. It's a Savage 99E in .308, wearing a 4x "International " scope from the late 50's.
That's 53 years ago.
I didn't have time to sight it in before my initial hunt with it, but with 165 grain Winchester ammo, it hit at the point of aim and brought home two does.
Funny, through the years of use by my brother and I, enduring innumerable drops, bumps, and knocks from many miles of trail, rain, desert heat and honest use and good care, we've never sighted it in... I'd never shoot it at paper for fear of wanting to tweak it....IT AIN'T BROKE.
It's always hit where it's pointed and killed what it hit with bullets weighing 150, 165, or 180 grains, and only once required a second shot.
I can't explain it, but this little unassuming, poorly varnished blond just works, and remains near the top of a lifetime hardware collection.
You know, like an old friend.
Last edited by pls1911; 12-06-2021 at 04:55 PM. Reason: sp
Salvaging old Marlins is not a pasttime...it's a passion
The non-serious shooter/hunters tend to have lots of issues. Most don't understand the actual size of the kill zone nor do they understand that the aiming point on a game animal is the exit hole. They also tend not to understand proper scope mounting and adjustment. Same for sighting in and the ballistics of drop and wind drift. Couple this with limited shooting skills and getting overly excited they tend to wound with a very high percentage of their shots.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Ha ha, proper scope mounting...
Years ago I had a coworker who took his rifle to a gunsmith to get something done on it. Maybe related to the story, I just can't remember. Anyway he took his rifle and scope to the gunsmith and the gunsmith looked at him like he was insane. He had the scope wrapped with wire to hold it on the rifle. OK, now I remember, he couldn't get it sighted in. I wonder why? Heck he could see the target just fine. This same gent found "eggs" in the deer he killed and from then on we joked about whether or not he saw any deer up in their nests. Nice enough guy just didn't know anything about the outdoors. No I never hunted with him. I always preferred to solo hunt. I saw too much similar stuff among people who should have known better.
Case in point... A neighbor and I were going to hunt birds so we went into a cover that I knew held them. We spread out a suitable distance, and he goes charging off busting brush on the run. I just unloaded my shotgun and met him out on the road after he ran out of obstacle course. Never hunted with him again. I have no idea what he was doing on that day. He never would have heard a bird or gotten a shot if he had flushed one.
Let's go Brandon!
you do realize that most hunters who shoot a deer, normally do it at 10% of the stated distance.
I think that works along the lines of a fish story.
The fish tends go get bigger with each telling about how it was caught.
In school: We learn lessons, and are given tests.
In life: We are given tests, and learn lessons.
OK People. Enough of this idle chit-chat.
This ain't your Grandma's sewing circle.
EVERYONE!
Back to your oars. The Captain wants to waterski.
That doesn't make any sense on the calibers. I can use a 35 Whelen but not a 30-06? No 300 Win Mag but a 45LC is ok? Does Iowa seriously think that a 30-30 isn't adequate for deer? I'm not sure the point to this.
I Am Descended From Men Who Would Not Be Ruled
Fiat Justitia, Ruat Caelum
The starting point of .35 cal. is the point.
Some states put restrictions that seem crazy to others.
Places that have rather dense woods, are crowded with hunters, and generally short range shots tend to limit the calibers
that reach out to the extended ranges.
Some of the desert states with commonly extended ranges have minimum requirements on what you can hunt with too.
In school: We learn lessons, and are given tests.
In life: We are given tests, and learn lessons.
OK People. Enough of this idle chit-chat.
This ain't your Grandma's sewing circle.
EVERYONE!
Back to your oars. The Captain wants to waterski.
Here is a history lesson that involves the full aspect of what is called a shotgun only hunting zone.
What the concept was is that a state says "we have to many hunters hunting in this area. Its not safe to have 100 hunters popping away at each other in a 20 acre circle while using a 30-06 or 8x57" so they required SHOTGUNS... as a means to say "we know everyone isnt going to do more then buy a box of 3$ buckshot and that means theyll have a lethal range of about 40 yards.... so now those 100 hunters have a decent chance of survival"
Then the saw the money aspect and started up cross bow seasons, airgun seasons, and now short chamber "pistol" type rifles
https://fishingminnesota.com/forums/...hotgun%20zones.
I was always curious as to why the slug zone existed, so I e-mailed the DNR. The following was their response my question.
Regulated deer hunting in Minnesota was initially open only in a zone encompassing the "northwoods" (the only place where deer remained after settlement) and any firearm was legal. As deer began to repopulate transition and agricultural areas of the state, the open zone for deer hunting was extended south and west and a "shotgun" zone was established in the more open parts of the state along the southern and western edges of the open zone. The shotgun zone dates back to the early 1940s and eventually all of the state was opened and included in either the "rifle" (all legal firearms) or shotgun zones.
I was told by those who were around before me that the primary concern that lead to the shotgun zone was the high vulnerability of deer to rifles in the more open "farm country" of the state. They said it was not established primarily for safety reasons, although that was a common perception. The boundaries of these zones have changed over the years and were regulated by DNR commissioner's order or rule until 2006. At that time the Legislature made some changes to allow rifles in portions of northwestern Minnesota and put the zones into statute instead of rule (see Minnesota Statutes 97B.318).
That would be the same reason states like ND have a noon opener.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 12-07-2021 at 12:44 AM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
There's some history I can not fully comprehend in that is Minnesota's deer. I'm starting to think Minnesota would be unrecognizable only 100 years ago. It's really hard to get specifics, and I'm not sure there are real answers. Overall, it seems the landscape of the plains and prairies were a lot more open than they are today, and not just because of the post-dustbowl tree lines, which really isn't much of MN anyway. I have to wonder if grazing animals, particularly buffalo did not influence this. I've heard that cattails that now dominate every slightly wet spot were not always that way. If you look at old farm photos, things look quite open in a lot of them. Then others show huge oak forests, full of giant trees. Today most of Minnesota is scattered forests, no huge tracts except in the north, but definitely not open prairie until you get far west, or far south. The most amazing thing about the deer is they have swapped places. My grandpa has told me about how their farm in Alexandria practically had no deer, so they would go far up to Big Fork to hunt. Today Big Fork is rather pathetic for deer hunting, not bad, but not likely to get any trophies. Alexandria is now loaded heavy with deer, same as most of farmland MN. He can't even remember seeing turkeys as a kid, now they are all over. Even in my short lifetime that farm in Alexandria has changed dramatically. A lot of it has to do with there being cattle on it until my great grandpa could not handle it anymore, but I can see the changes beyond just the old pasture. Thorns grow like you wouldn't believe. I think trees grow better every year. When I was a kid, I definitely remember being able to sit by THE tree with my dad and brother, and pass shooting ducks that came off the slough. Today, you couldn't do it. THE tree has obviously grown, but so have hundreds of others in only 20 years. The original deer stands have mostly fallen, but where they are is so crazy thick, you couldn't hope to shoot a deer unless it was scratching on the tree you were in. Even stands I have built, and I remind you this is in areas that was not farmed, or touched by people or cattle, are so grown up, I use a brush cutter more and more every year. When I built those stands, I put them in certain spots so there were natural shooting lanes.
Sorry to steal the thread, it just fascinates me to think about how different things have become from even short times ago, when some of these very odd regulations came to be.
Well in Michigan everything that has ever been put forth into print has always been the safety angle. They havent a worry about over hunting here in michigan. In michigan the idea is actually about exterminating the deer herd for the last 7 years.
Historically that is not correct https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,...8543--,00.html
PROTECTION
An early approach to deer regulation was complete closure of specific counties to deer hunting for a period of three to ten years. This extreme method of increasing deer numbers was common in the late 1890s until the early 1920s, at which time deer hunting was illegal in almost 1/3 of Michigan counties. One can imagine the legislative debates about closing of a county to deer hunting for several years.
There was also a reduction in the number of days that hunters could take deer. Season dates were changed several times until 1925, when November 15 through 30 was determined to be the best time for hunting deer. It is interesting to note that except for failed experiments with Saturday openers and split seasons between 1962 and 1967, the firearm season of November 15 through 30 has remained the same for more than half a century.
Although there were few deer hunters at the turn of the century (from 14,499 licenses sold in 1895 to 21,239 in 1915 ), many of these hunters were very efficient at taking deer. The deer harvest during these years averaged about 12,000. Thus, there was interest in reducing the bag limit of successful hunters as a method to manage deer. The Legislature reduced the bag limit from five deer in 1895 to three in 1901, two in 1905, and to one deer in 1915. But then, there was a serious debate over the Department recommendation that hunters should be allowed to take only one buck. Game Commissioner William R. Oates argued that a "buck law" was needed because the deer herd was not increasing even with the elimination of market hunting The Commissioner estimated that there were only 45,000 deer in Michigan in 1914. Rather than provide for complete county closures to deer hunting for up to ten years, it was recommended that regulations be changed so that only antlered deer could be taken by hunters.
Mr. George Shiras III, a wildlife expert of the times, wrote an article supporting the "buck law" which appeared in the Marquette Mining Journal. Regardless of the opinions of Commissioner Oates or Deer Biologist Shiras, the Legislature did not, at first, accept the recommendation for a "buck law." The decade-long debate continued until the "buck law" became effective in 1921. As we shall see, the Department sold the "buck law" so well that it would result in the destruction of deer range and create serious deer population and public education problems for many years to come.
ADVENT OF SCIENTIFIC DEER MANAGEMENT
Hunters in Michigan had also lobbied for discretionary authority to be provided to the Public Domain Commission (precursor to the DNR) by the Legislature. The lack of a timely response to the serious drop in ruffed grouse in the Upper Peninsula was used as a case study to show the need for discretionary authority. The Michigan Legislature did even more than provide discretionary authority. Act 17, P.A. 1921, created a State Department of Conservation to include the former Michigan State Parks Commission, Board of Geological Survey, State Board of Fish Commissioners, State Game, Fish, and Forest Fire Commission, and the Public Domain Commission.
In 1928, the Game Division was established within the Department of Conservation. With technical personnel in a special organization, scientific data began to form much of the basis for decision-making. Our basic knowledge of the white-tailed deer and its habitat expanded as Michigan made a major contribution to the scientific literature on deer.
Studies were begun on conducting drives to census deer. Sighting rates of bucks, does, and fawns seen per 100 hours were recorded by conservation officers while on patrol in deer territory. Studies were completed to correlate skull and antler characteristics with age of deer. Browse surveys were done in deeryards to estimate winter food and cover. Diseases and parasitism were researched to monitor herd health. Hunter surveys were started to obtain better data on the annual harvest.
Scientific game management expanded even more in 1937 with the passage of the Pittman-Robertson Act for Federal Aid in Wildlife Restoration. This act collected a federal excise tax on hunting arms and ammunition to be returned to the state for research, land acquisition, and habitat development. Full-time wildlife research biologists were hired by the Department and housed at research stations. Some of these researchers, like Mr. Louis .1. Verme and Mr. John J. Ozoga, became international experts in the nutrition, physiology, and behavior of white-tailed deer.
At the same time scientific studies were being done, the deer herd began to rebound. Some of the increase was due to habitat changes as logged-over areas produced deer browse. Shrubs and other deer foods developed in many areas that had been cleared for agriculture but abandoned. There was also an impact of the no-dog rule, the "buck law", and what was known to hunters as the "Shiras gun law" (this law prohibited the carrying of firearms in deer territory during the closed season.)
By 1930, the abundance of deer was recognized. The first discussion of deer-vehicle accidents began. Hunters complained that the "woods was full of dry does", and that maybe the "buck law,' should be changed. There was also a significant amount of winter starvation and over-browsing in cedar swamps where field investigators reported a shortage of food and cover for the growing herd. By 1936, hunters were complaining about low buck-to-doe ratios.
A crop damage committee was formed in the late 1930s to include representatives of hunting and agricultural groups. Mr. Ilo Bartlett, the state's first deer biologist, reported that there were 1.125 million deer in the state in 1937 (about 1/3 of which were in the Upper Peninsula and 2/3 in the northern Lower Peninsula- only a very few deer were present in southern Michigan). He began to talk about the "Deer Problem."
Currently their management plan looks fairly solid https://www.michigan.gov/documents/d...came%20illegal.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
When you go to another state to hunt , you should know the laws of the state you hunt . Not the ones you know of your own state. You are a non resident of the state you go to and there law applied not what one think should be. If some one dose not like the laws of a state do not hunt it or anything else . It is up to the person if they want to follow the laws of that state. Some state are worse then others. I know, I move out of one of the strictest states before I came to Iowa and that was the state of Mass. .
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